Compound Growth

Episode 11- The Freedom of Letting Go: Haircuts, Ego, and Growth

• Compound Growth • Season 1 • Episode 11

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Sometimes the biggest transformations start with something as simple as a haircut. In this episode of Compound Growth, Colin and Wheeler dive into the surprisingly personal and professional lessons that come from embracing change—beginning with Colin’s decision to shave his head. What starts as a funny conversation about baldness turns into a deeper reflection on honesty, confidence, and the unexpected freedom that comes from letting go of old habits (and old hair).

They explore how small acts of acceptance—whether it’s a new look or a big career decision—can free up mental energy and even inspire others. Colin shares his journey from hiding thinning hair to proudly embracing the clean-shaven look, and how this decision shifted the way people perceived him—and how he perceived himself.

Beyond haircuts, this episode is about growth, authenticity, and the ways we overcomplicate things that don’t really matter. Packed with laughs, personal stories, and sharp insights, it’s a reminder that sometimes the bravest (and best) choice is the simplest one.

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Credits:
Created By: Wheeler Crowley and Colin Walker
Production Assistance: Tori Rothwell
Editing and Post-Production: Steven Sims

All right, Colin, I feel like we should talk about the elephant in the room.My lack of hair.Your new haircut.Tell us- I will say, your-tell us about it.Your haircut inspired me.I am inspirational.Well, um, it's something I had been thinking about for a long time.Uh, in terms of genes, my mom's side of the family did not bless me with great hair for very long.Hm.I thought you had great hair.Thanks.For a brief period.When I first met you.When you first met me.Um, over time, the hair t- goes away, uh, I've noticed, at least in my particular case, and it went away pretty dramatically from 32 to 35.And I was trying everything.Mm-hmm.I was trying Rogaine.I was trying comb-overs.I was growing my hair out in little pieces to pull it over the top.What I think the biggest compliment was is when I see people on Zoom and they see my lack of hair for the first time, happened to your hair?It was so great."And I'm like, "Oh, good.I was able to-" "cover it up in Zoom.""You didn't see it."I had them all fooled for- Yeah.Exactly, but then when I see people in person, my, uh, mother-in-law, I walked up and I was bald, and she goes, "Oh my God.Thank God you shaved your head-"was her first reaction.And I was like, "You could've just told me," you know?But like, I should've shaved my head.Yeah.The honesty of it.Yeah.But, um, no, I, I appreciate it because it made me cemented in the fact that I had made the right decision.And I have to say, it was incredibly freeing.Hm.Yeah.You know, getting rid of it and not having to deal with it, now granted, in some ways it's actually higher maintenance because I have to shave my head now.See, this is what I explain to people because you do actually have to take care of it regularly.Like you, you know, you have to sh- I shave every other day.I moisturize every day.Like- Yeah.it's, it's freeing in some ways, like y- you never worry about bed head or looking bald.You're just intentionally looking bald.Well, that's the thing, like if, if you're trying to cover something up, sometimes it's just better to embrace it.Sure.And I was listening to actually a podcast, um, where the guy had gone bald and 0 of course I was pushed it.It's like they know what I look like online.Now they know.Yeah, they know what I look like online.Ever since this podcast started, they're like, "Ooh, we better push this guy some Rogaine ads."But I started to get pushed this, and, um, the guy was like, "Look, if you're covering it up, you got a comb-over, you're using Rogaine, you're looking at hair transplants, like you're trying to do all of these things, you recognize that you're self-conscious about this."Yeah.And sometimes it's better to just lean in and you're gonna feel better afterwards.So Kaylee and I were listening to that in the car and I was like, "You wanna know what?Let's just go home and shave it."So she grabbed the razor and she did it, and she was like, very upset and crying as she was- Oh my gosh.doing it.Was sh- was she upset or just emotional?She was emotional.She was emotional because she's always known me with hair.But, um, once it was done, she was like, "You look actually really good."And then I saw myself in the mirror and it was freaky.Yeah.The first time I saw myself without hair I was like, "Oh my God."You know what's funny was when I, when I first connected with you after you shaved your head, I didn't see you.Like I literally didn't even see you.You walked right past me.I, I was like, "Where?"Wha- oh.Oh my God.I was looking- It's you.I was looking for the tall guy with the nice hair 'cause I still, I thought you had nice hair.Thank you.But I know, I know that this was something that was on your mind a lot, like- It was.yeah.And I think it was Joe Rogan actually who tried to get a hair transplant and the transplant failed.Ugh.And he was talking about like how unbelievably painful it was.Oh.Yeah.Because I looked into it and you can't lay down flat for 2 weeks, you know, you're flying to Turkey or wherever to get it done, or you're getting it done here locally, but it's incredibly painful.It's very expensive.It may not take.Yeah.And in my particular case, it wouldn't have taken, like I was denied for.People just think that you can just go and get a hair transplant.That's not true.Yeah.Um, a lot of the times people actually are not acceptable under there because if you have scarring alopecia you can't have a hair transplant because it won't take in a lot of cases.It's not a blanket statement, but- Yeah.You were, you were doing the thing that I did, uh, in college.So I started going bald between sophomore and junior year of college.Like I- Okay.I had, I think, really good hair, and then the summer happened, I transferred colleges, and then I didn't have good hair anymore.It goes so quick.It just happened.And I've, I, you know, stress, whatever these, they're contributing factors, but- Of course.so you did what I started to do, which was always wear a hat.I just, just like I'm- Always wearing a hat.I'm probably always wearing a hat.And I di- I was growing it out at the same time, so like I had hair, like tufts of hair like underneath- In the back.my hat and stuff.And, uh, there was one time we were, I was at, uh, a party with some friends and I took off my hat and one of our friends, hm, turned to my buddy Steve.He's like, "Dude, Wheeler's bald?"And I was likeAnd so they told me about that after and I did nothing about it and I just continued to wear a hat, uh, for a while.But I think the turning point, what's different about my story and your story is that I started going to a barber after college.Uh, we moved to Boston- Yeah.and at 1 point my barber just shaved my head.Didn't even say anything?Didn't tell me he was gonna do it.So you just turned around and you were bald?Oh, yeah.I looked in the mirror and it like- once, once you go that first run- That's it.it's like, okay.SoYou're leaning in at that point.Yeah.Yeah.But I think it, it's funny for, like for Kaylee and for Jess, like when- Yeah.they know you for so long with hair.Yeah, because Jess has known you forever.Yeah, exactly.Yeah, so that was a big shock.But it's, you've got the right head for it.You know?Thanks.Not everybody does have fortunate head shapes like us.I'm luckily, uh, luckily not a cone head or something weird.You know, I don't have like a huge growth on my head.Like a weirda third arm growing- Yeah.out of my head or something.It works for you.Thank you.Welcome, welcome to the club.Thank you.It's a great club to be in.I have to say, it's quite accepting.Um, but yeah, I, I remember my bachelor party.I was, uh, in the pool with a bunch of my friends and we were hanging out and, uh, one of my buddies, Joey, was like-I'm sorry man, I know it's your bachelor party but-we gotta talk about your hair.Is this a bad time?Is this a bad time?I know we're 6 beers deep, but maybe that's the best time.Yeah.'Cause he was just like, "We all notice-" Oh.it's happening."You know, "I know you're trying to cover it up.I think you just gotta lean in.You gotta know whether or not you're just getting a transplant or you just gotta be bald."'Cause he was just like, "You cannot go comb-over."Welcome to the Compound Growth podcast, with Collin and Wheeler, where we talk all things growth.From financial growth to career growth, personal development to societal progress, we explore how each layer builds on the next, compounding over time to shape who we become.Each week, we break down complex ideas and emerging trends into clear, actionable insights.Because growth isn't just about numbers, it's about understanding the world and our place in it.The information in this material is for general information only and is not intended to provide specific advice or recommendations for any individual.Investment advice offered through Integrated Partners, doing business as CoFi Advisors LLC, a registered investment advisor.Integrated Partners does not provide legal, tax, mortgage advice or services.Please consult your legal tax advisor regarding your specific situation.Past performance is no guarantee of future results.All investing involves risk, including loss of principal.No strategy assures success or protects against loss.The economic forecasts set forth in this material may not develop as predicted, and there can be no guarantee that the strategies promoted will be successful.I've been thinking about this a lot, because I refer to myself as a capitalist.Yep.We talk about capitalism a lot.Right?We fuel capitalism in a lot of ways, given our jobs and industry.Yeah.But how much of capitalism is literally, like, an idea that is covering up something underneath that may be- You're really trying to tie this into being bold.It's not whatI can.I can doI can tie anything.That's true.But I, I think it's about time that we kind of unpack capitalism, the goods, the bads, what it is, what it could be, what it's been in the past.Mm-hmm.Right?Um, and, and try to get on the same page so that the people who listen to these episodes know what we're talking about and know where we stand when it comes to capitalism.Yeah.I think this is gonna be a, um, a personalUh, I try to remove bias from these podcasts as much as possible.Sure.Whenever it comes to anything politically, financial, whatever, uh, this one's gonna be kind of difficult to not impart some sort of bias in, I'll say, the delivery of some of these things.I think bias is natural and important.In a podcast, people, uh, literally are just here to hear what you think.Right?Hopefully.So, um, you can't convey somebody else.You can only convey yourself.Fair.Well, why don't we start with the basic definition?Yes, tell us what capitalism is, Collin.Okay.Capitalism, as per ChatGPT.Capitalism is an economic system where private individuals and businesses own the means of production, operate for profit, and compete in free markets with limited government interference.So that government interference part, I think, is really important.And- Mm-hmm.I think that when we were both consulting our research assistant, Mr.ChatGPT, um, to make sure that we were covering all the bases- Yeah.one thing, um, that I noticed was the different variants of capitalism that they pointed out.And I think that we traditionally think about American capitalism, right?And we think of American capitalism as just, like, one thing.Like, it's just always been this thing.And there's an evolution to it.But capitalism exists in other parts of the world, right?There's what they call social market economy.So, that's basically capitalism combined with strong social policies, i.e.Europe.Sure.Modern day Europe, right?Germany, Paris, or France.Not ju- not just Paris.Paris, especially, and France.Yes.Um, and then there's state capitalism.So, the state plays a significant role in the economy, but within a market framework.So, I think this is a little bit more wishy-washy.This is, theoretically, the Singapores or the Chinas of the world, right?A lot of Yeah, where there's, there'sthere's, yeah, sure you can build a business but, you know, it's for the greater good of the state, right?Yeah.Well, a lot of our capitalism can also be tied back if you go back to 1776, Adam Smith, The Wealth of Nations.Mm-hmm.Mm-hmm.Which is, I think, uh, a pretty cool tie-back, obviously that was the same year as the, you know, Independence.But he had some interesting points in that book in general that I think have carried on to economics today.But a lot of it I think is misunderstood.Okay.So if we were to unpack what that book was really saying, it was the invisible hand theory where individuals act in their own self-interest, so they unintentionally contribute to the overall good of society.So it's like if you were to think about someone who's baking bread.They're baking bread because they want to make money, but they're producing a product which does help society.And it helps them make money, and it helps feed.Reciprocal.Right.Yeah.Okay.Yeah.So there's that part of it, but then he also talks about, you know, division of labor.He talks about free markets, big government planning, all of that good stuff that ties into a lot of what we think about today, but he talks about the stripping back of government intervention.One thing that's interesting though is he does talk about, in that book too, that he's not anti-government.Yeah.So I think a lot of people take this stripping away of government saying that, "Oh, capitalism, government shouldn't be involved in anything, it's just there to support."But he actually believed that they should be doing things like road, defense, education.They should have a pretty big hand in all of that, and then he also warned against things like monopolies, you know, phony capitalism.There's like a lot of issues that he warned against that I-I think it's fascinating that we use that as a framework, but we've also fallen into a lot of the traps that he warned against.Yeah.I think it's becausefirst of all, I think it's, you know, I just spent a lot of time in Europe, right?Mm-hmm.And when you're over there, you're in these countries that the history goes back so many hundreds of years further than we do.Some of it, you know, BC stuff.1776 sounds like a long time ago, but to them that's a new construction.Yeah, exactly.That's a new build.Yeah.Right?Um, so I- I- I think that we think of this country, we grow up in it, we kind of feel like it's always been, right?But obviously, that's not the case.And we refer to the United States as a democracy, but I've also heard it referred to as an experiment, right?There was no country like the US before we were founded and arguably there's no country quite like it still, right?So, if you think about this as an experiment then you have to look at it as a thesis, you know, which is what you're referring to there.Yep.And then you have trial and error, and you go through theseIf you look back at our history and our relationship with capitalism, you go through these different periods where we try one thing, it stops working or maybe it never worked in the first place, and then we shift the- the thesisResub.right?And we run another experiment.So, if you look at the- the various periods in the United States in the history of capitalism, all right?You start with 70- 1776- Mm-hmm.like you said,And you've got small-scale capitalism.You've got the people making bread, right?They're making bread for their immediate community.They're not making bread to ship it 3,000 miles away.So you've got the economy dominated by farming and local markets, small merchants, et cetera, right?That goes until the 1860s, and then it's disrupted.And it's disrupted because a lar- a large part of the economic success up until that point was built on the back of slaves.Yep.Right?So, when slavery is abolished and when the North and the South go to war, big economic, uh, reason for that, right?The impetus for that war, and on the other side of that, we move from-from early capitalism to industrial capitalism.Mm-hmm.Right?So we're taking out, uh, let's call it blatant slave livery, uh, labor, and putting in just, I think, underpaid, not a lot of government interference, capitalism, right?It's still like early nascent stages capitalism.Industrialism.Industrialism.But it's free reign, right?There's harsh labor conditions.There's the l- the robber barons, right, of the world, the Vanderbilts.7day work week.The Rockefellers, Carnegies.Yeah, exactly.People who are still making money off the backs of other people, they're just doing it and calling them free, right?So that goes from the Civil War basically into the 1920s.Mm-hmm.1920s we have the Great Depression.So that experiment culminates in the Great Depression.It falls apart and we realize that all these free markets existing on their own without a lot of government interference, and there was some monopoly concern at that point and the government had stepped in to do something about monopolies at that point, they were starting to break up Rockefeller for example, but that falls apart.It culminates in the Great Depression, falls apart again.Start a new version of the experiment, you get New Deal capitalism, right?So that's when you start to bring in the government intervention, you got job programs, Social Security, bank reforms, right?That goesThat- that becomes high growth, rising wages, strong unions.and then de- also declining in equality.Right.So this is where you start to see an even bigger divergence in inequality in the country.Mm-mm.The opposite.Oh, interesting.You start to see equality, and that's because we have World War II- Yeah.in the middle of that, and as we've discussed in a previous episode, coming back from World War II, we had the closest thing to equality in this country that we've ever had, right?Mm-hmm.And this was a point where there was a lot of government interference, right?This is a point where the, the, the peak government interference in capitalism happened during this 1920s to 1970s period, right?So after World War II, that is where you're starting to see inequality break out.That'sNot quite.Okay.So after World War II, you've got peak, um, let's call it patriotism, right?Mm-hmm.We're all in this together.We're all paddling forward in the same boat, right?Yeah.Everyone gets a home.Everyone gets a home.They're affordable.Uh, eventually everybody gets a TV.They're having a shared experience as we discussed before, right?Mm-hmm.But that experiment fizzles out in the '70s when we've got inflation and stagflation.Right?So then we've got Reagan coming in.Reagan says, "Let's, you know, pare back the government interference here."Deregulate.Deregulate, right?That allows businesses to boom, to grow.You've got 1980s Wall Street type stuff that we've talked about in the past, right?Greed is good.Deregulate, deregulate, deregulate.Then you have Clinton come in, then you've got NAFTA, and then you've got globalization, right?Mm-hmm.So now we're starting to pay other people in other countries to do these jobs forWe're paying them less than we were paying our own people, right?Mm-hmm.That brings the cost of the labor down and the cost of the products down, right?Mm-hmm.And it increases the wealth gap that was shrinking up to that point.Yeah.The s- the '70s sucked for everybody.I wasn't there personally, but from what I understand, it was not a great time.Doesn't look good on television.Right.So, deregulation.That experiment culminates in 2008, Great Financial Crisis, right?And then what do we do to solve that crisis?We bring the government back in.Drop interest rates.Right.We drop interest rates, and we have, uh, government coming in and, um, stimulating the economy.And that becomes the new playbook.So 2008, we figure out what the playbook is.We run it again in 2020 when COVID hits, right?Mm-hmm.And we're in the middle of this version of capitalism right now, where it's government stimulus.Government interference really comes in the form of supporting and propping up the markets through stimulus, right?Right.And in 2008, I mean, you know the whole theory of too big to fail.I understand they didn't want to go through the Great Depression again- Sure.where there's huge flea on the banks, ATM stopped working, you have massive bank failure, and as opposed to a three to 4 year drawdown and a great recession, uh, you know, you now have something much bigger.It was a crisis that they said, "We have a potential solution for it.""Let's see how this works," right?Let's try it.And that's the latest experiment.That's the experiment we're still in right now.Too big to fail.So the question is, whenIf we look at all of these different segments of historic US capitalism, when does this chapter close, and what closes it, and then on what's on the other side?Well, I think, personally, that when you start rolling a ball down a hill, the snowball analogy, right?Mm-hmm.Sometimes it can get too big to stop.Sure.And what concerns me is the setup of capitalism has maybe gone too far to the point where, you know, we were warned about monopolies.And it's not just banking monopolies.You know, you do have monopolies in regards to tech and healthcare.You have them in pretty big industries, and finance obviously.Yeah.And those play a massive impact because now you have lobbyists and you have people in positions where they're trying to not create change- Right.and they're trying to keep things the way that they are because they're incentivized to do so.Yeah.Well, I think that's, that's becomingI think where I would push back on that is because I feel that same feeling, right?Mm-hmm.It feels like we are in that snowball and it's just rolling and rolling and rolling, but there's a bottom to that hill, right?And I don't know what that looks like, but it, it will happen at some point in some way.You know, we say like something becomes unstoppable.I just came from the country of revolutions, right?That'sWhat France does is they just revolt when something stops working, right?Right.And I think there are other countries, uh, that have had that type of experience in the past and it'sYou know, we're not just trying to move from a classic monarchy, but we are perhaps at, reaching a point where we need to move from this modern day version of a monarchy, right?I mean, um, every major superpower has fallen at some point.Right, right.And we're not immune to that.I'm not saying that the US is going to fail tomorrow or anything like that, but I agree with you.There can always be a major upset that can throw off something and you never know what that is.Yeah, but what, what does that mean, to fall?Like, the British Empire fell, I just went to London, right?They're doing okay.S- Yeah, London's doing great.I don't know.I mean, it, it's one thing to say you've fallen, but it's one thing to go from best to second best as well.You know?Yeah.When you say fall, that doesn't necessarily mean you had a massive disaster and someone walked in and took over the country.It can be something less dramatic.Exactly.Everybody just automatically assumes that th- the worst is gonna happen, but it, it doesn't necessarily have to be.It can be small changes over time lead to big things.Yeah.Well, I mean, this is what, what, what was it, like, um, a few years ago, there was, that the, I don't know, the, the social media videos or the concept that, like, how often do you think about the Roman Empire or whatever?All the time.Right?I never do.But, like, it was some- somehow supposed to define a person, especially a man, how often they think about the Roman Empire, right?About the Roman Empire.But just like, you know, we always say like, "Oh, is this the, you know, is this the, the fall of Rome?Is the US the new Rome and we're on this, you know, edge of disaster?"I think people will eventually get fed up and something could happen, whether it's a revolt in France.But I mean, when I sit here, what frustrates me about capitalism, we spend more on healthcare than any other country.Sure.Yeah.By an absolutely massive margin.It's like 25% of our GDP.The next closest is Germany at 12th, and we rank anywhere between 30th and 40th in terms of actual results- Yeah.in our healthcare, whether that's, you know, death in pregnancy, you know, childhood obesity, whether it's infant mortality, any of those types of metrics you look at, we're very far behind, but yet we spend a, a massive amount more.And it's frustrating because a lot of that goes to administration costs, that goes to billing, that goes to highly inflated salaries, and I'm not saying that doctors shouldn't get paid, but if they didn't have $400,000 worth of student loan debts- Right.like if you look at countries like, um, I'll say, you know, the Netherlands or Germany or a lot of these other countries that rank very high in healthcare, it's not that the doctors are underpaid, they're paid less, but they also have no costs for education.It's extremely little.Mm-hmm.A lot of it's subsidized by the government, but then on top of that, they're working 30 to 35 hours a week, a lot of them.Their work-life balance is so much better.So what's frustrating to me is I don't think capitalism is bad.I think it does work in a lot of ways.I think currently what is frustrating is the system is set up to maybe benefit the wrong people, because anyone that disagrees with socialism, I think, would have a tough time arguing against firefighters, you know?Like- Yeah.people are going to- Yeah.want to have firefighters in their town if something happens.There are certain cases where it does work, and I'm not saying that, you know, I, I believe in everything needs to be socialistic or anything like that.However, um, there could be some ways that the government plays a bigger role and is more effective, because I think right now in certain areas, capitalism is doing a disservice.I think what gets tricky is, you're right that our healthcare is a disa- no one, nobody that I know would advocate that- That we have great healthcare.That we have great healthcare in this country.And it's, and it's effective and it's inexpensive.Sure.But I think there are people who would suggest that we have the best innovation in healthcare, right?And they would argue that the cost of healthcare allows for that innovation, especially when it comes to pharmaceuticals and drug companies and biotech, et cetera, and I'm not suggesting that's the case, right?But I know that that is the flip side of that argument.Sure.And I think when you look at we have a broken healthcare system, we have a broken education system, we have unaffordable housing.I don't know what a modern day revolution looks like.I don't know if it's necessary, right?But I know that these 3 things are in that snowball that you're worried about, and I thinkthe- the enemy here, beyond all other things, is not the government but wealth inequality.I agree with you.The problem with wealth inequality is people always talk about the wealth get wealthier.And that's, you know, how free markets work.You know, if you have invested your money in the S&P 500 you're gonna do all right over a 10 to 20-year period.Yeah.I was just on with, um, a 24-year-old daughter of a client last night who's starting to invest at, you know, a- a young age and she's doing great and we're gonna put some money to work.But showing her compound interest rate calculators for putting 18, you know, or call it like 20K into a 401K, you know, when you're in your 20s versus putting 20K in your 401K when you're in your 40s.You know, it's the difference of millions of dollars and, um, that's- that's the thing is when you have compound growth working with you it's fantastic, but if you're not playing the game, which is what we often talk about- Right.then it's working against you.Well, and this is- this is something that Jess has brought up actually is, you know, what does it mean to not just to play the game but to win the game, right?Because I think something we said in a previous episode, we talked about winning the game, um, which isn't usually the way I think about this.I don't think that capitalism is a zero sum.Agreed.There's no- there's no winning or losing in my mind.But there- but I think there is.The problem is that there shouldn't be, but perhaps there is.Or there has to be in some form, but doesn't have to be in an overarching sense, right?Like there are plenty of peopleIf you feel like this is a game, which maybe that's minimizing life a little bit, but let's say that we're gonna call this a game.The people who are living paycheck to paycheck and barely getting by, it's hard to argue that they are winning that game.No, you can not argue with that.So I guess going back to the snowball, I feel like your point that capitalism allows the rich to get richer and it's irreversible, I think we have to push back against that and wonder if it's totally true.Because if you look at Rockefeller, so inflation adjusted for 2020 for $25, Rockefeller was worth 25 to $30 1000000000.Right?Now his wealth went through 2 periods in, you know, American capitalism, right?There was the, let's call it like the Robert Baron period of it and then the New Deal.Mm-hmm.Right?Elon Musk now is significantly higher than- than that, um, he has $210 to $250 billion by whatever the estimate might be in any given day depending on what Tesla stock is doing.Right.Right?It's rather volatile.Right.Um, and that's- that's a lot, right?But as a percentage of the GDP it's pretty similar to what Rockefeller had.So Rockefeller's fortune was about 2 to 3% of the entire US economy at that time, right?One man, not just one family but one man- One specific person.not just one company, one person was equal to 2% of the American- Wealthier than most nations in the world.Yeah.Yeah.It- we did at some point pass that, get to a point where we had the lowest amount of wealth inequality in history after Rockefeller.Because of the Great Depression.Because of the Great Depression, right?So do we need something like that?Do we need a shakeup in literally to rewrite things, to hit a refresh button, or is there another way to kind of rise up the rest?Like the concept of trickle down economics didn't work.No.Right?Um, it was idealistic.It would be nice if it would work, but you've got to- y- you can't just concentrate all the wealth in the hands of a few and also find wealth for other people and have them benefit in a way that the already wealthy aren't, right?Our bald buddy, Bezos, thank you, Tori, for reminding me that Bezos also went bald at some point.Um, you know, he has the opportunity to stop growing his wealth if he wants to.But back to your bread maker analogy, what is his incentive to do that?Well, to stop growing his wealth, people would need to stop using Amazon.He could give away.Now, he could say, "I'm never gonna be worth more than $25 1000000000."And- Fair.every, every, you know, every year, he does a little assessment and he says, "Okay, I'm hit 25, 26 1000000000, I'm gonna take this billion and"Right?Certainly, people have that option.But going back to our Tony Robbins thing that we went to, if you're not gonna give away a dollar of your 10, you're not gonna give away a million of your 1000000000.Right.So, i- it's, it's specific to each individual.Right.And I think when a government comes in and says, "You're required to do this."That's a different thing entirely.So, I think that's the, potentially the opportunity.You know, when we were listening toYou and I listened to, um, a Joe Rogan episode with Bernie Sanders on it, right?Yep.And Bernie said his, you know, they should pay their fair share thing that, like, you often hear from the Bernies or the AOCs or the whoever, right?And Joe asked, "What's their fair share?"And Bernie says, "I don't know."And I don't know how you determine what the fair share is, right?But I do know that when you go back to the highest levels of taxation historically in this country, there was a point that on X number of dollars, like above a million or above whatever it might be, where you were taxed 99% of that dollar, right?So, you know, your first $12,000 you're not taxed anything.Your last 1000000, you're taxed 99%.I don't see how we'll ever get there based on, you know, the issue that you brought up that the wealthy are in charge, right?And they don't wanna be paying those taxes.Right.Well, I mean, 74% of all taxes are paid by the top 10%.Right.So, a huge chunk of taxes are being allocated from the top already.But even if you were to strip away all of that money from all of those people, I really don't think it would make that big of a dent in GDP for more than a year or 2.Yeah, I mean, I don't thinkAre we trying to dent GDP?Or here's, here's the thing.Sorry, dent in everything.Yeah, I think when we talk about the, the debt that we have in the country, I think we're talking about the wrong problem, and it's not whether or not we can support Social Security or support Medicare or Medicaid or just have these social safety nets at play.I think we need to accept the fact that we need these things and that potentially, on the other side of this AI disruption, we have the opportunity for something like a UBI, universal basic income.If we are getting more productivity from AI, from our economy, why can't we use that productivity, at least some part of it, to rise up the lower, you know, the lower class?You certainly could, but now at this point, um, we're leaning heavier into socialism, and I think when it comes to things like that, let's say, for example, I, um, received an income from the government.Mm-hmm.What's to say I don't mess up and then the government dings me for that and my income goes down?Or what's to say the government changes their mind and changes my income?I think when you have a universal income, what would concern me is the lack of control over it, because capitalism, in a lot of ways, is viewed as freedom.You wanna go make more money- Sure.you can go make more money.Yeah.But when you're relying on someone to hand you a paycheck, that can be stressful.Sure, but I think you have to put yourself in the shoes of those people who would receive that money.UBI is not made for the one percent.No, of course.So, if you're thinking about, like, I hear the argument, what do you have to do to lose your Social Security?Right now?Yeah.Not make money.No, I mean, if you're, if you're receiving Social Security, why does the government decide not to give you Social Security?Well, it'd probably be under jail.So, sure, if you go to prison- Yeah.if you commit a crime and you go to prison, fine, right?But I don't think this has to be a, just a state where, you know, it'sWe monitor everything you do, and if you get a speeding ticket, we ding you a hundred bucks a month, right?I think thatSo, UBI exists.We've already seen it through, it's not completely universal, obviously, through Social Security, but there is some version of it, and then it happened during COVID.We literally had UBI.Right.It led to inflation.Inflation is a risk.Mm-hmm.Right?And you have to account for that, and I don't think there's an easy answer because if there was an easy answer, somebody might do it.But I do think that it's not socialism to provide UBI.If we think about socialistic capitalism, like we have in Europe, right?If you have Germany and you have these countries that provide, um, healthcare and they provide education at 0 to low cost.Right?There's nothing that stops us from doing that-except for how we allocate our dollars.And one issue, if you look at Germany, right?The reason that Germany's been able to give so much in term of social safety net, is because they didn't have to worry about spending on arming the nation, right?Yeah.I mean, they're basically completely supported, the EU is completely supported by our military.They were.Now, they're arming- Now, it's not.Right.So now, they're having to do it.Right.And now, they're gonna go into debt.However, we're still spending the same amount.Right.We are.And I don't think that ever is going to change.It's not gonna change.Right.So you then have to have more from somewhere- Mm-hmm.to give to someone.But if you feel like if, there's, there's 2 choices here, and it's not capitalism or socialism.It's either you feel like there should be poverty or you don't.I think, you know, that would be tough for anyone to argue that there should be poverty.So, maybe, if you can get past that first question and say, "Wealth inequality is always gonna be here in some form," right?We can shrink the gap, but we're never gonna have true socialism or communism even.I think the United States was built on competition in general.Sure.So as long as you believe in some form of competition, there's inherently a winner and a loser.Right.But you don't have to just say, "It's either all equal or it's complete disparity," right?Right.I mean, this is why social programs exist is to help people.Right.And maybe just a better statement or a better way of framing it is we need better social systems and we need more of them.agreed.But we have to pay for them somewhere.This is what we talked about yesterday.So I'm fine with paying taxes.I'm fine with paying more in taxes.Mm-hmm.If I knew that those were going to great social programs that were benefiting people.Right.And it's currently not.I wanna go back though, because, um, you brought up something prior about, you know, the drugs and innovation and whatnot, and I'm fine with that.You know, we do have some great healthcare innovations, we do a lot on drugs.I think personally, it sucks that we pay 300% more for them in this country than they do another countries for the exact same product.Even though a lot of them, you know, the big companies kind of come from us.I think what's tough about that though is, 1, there's a ton of lobbying power- Sure.in that industry in general.Yeah.And it's gonna be there.But then 2, on top of that, the reason why we have so much innovation is because of the capitalism and the competition.You know, the best drug companies in theory will emerge or they'll get acquired by other drug companies to get that technology.If that competition isn't there and it's fully subsidized- Yeah.will that innovation actually exist?I would argue no, and in which in theory, if you have people running those country, companies, then those people are going to make more money.I think the number one goal of any company is to make money.Of course.And any CEO wants to make more money.It's the bread maker.Yeah, exactly.Um, you have to allow for companies to make money.You have to allow for people to improve their lives, right?I think that if the national pastime of France is striking right?It still is.Um, still is, I personally learned.Uh, then our national pastime is growth and innovation, right?Mm-hmm.Like, it's, it's creation.It's making, it's, you know, I think that this country was founded on exploration, right?We came to the new world, literally.Mm-hmm.Uh, and then we worked our way across that new world until we owned every part of it.And, you know, you can argue obviously that the way we did that was not okay, but it's still in the American DNA to do that, right?To explore, to create, to build, et cetera.So you have to reward that instinct.It's, it's part of who we are.It, I think the question is just how much reward?Should it be an uncapped amount of potential, or is it maybe that we should require some amount of greater good, greater service from the work that we do?Well, I think the reward system is changing constantly as well.My parents' idea of a dream and the American dream- Mm-hmm.is different than maybe Tori's, as an example.You know, growing up, they wanted a house, a family, to become, you know, I'll say high up in a major company, and then retire.Mm-hmm.And, I think a lot of young 20-year-olds that we talk to today do not share that vision, and it's quite different.So the rewards system, I think, is ever-changing, and what that is, I think, is very personal as well.It is, you're right.And I think the American dream is sold to us, and it's sold to us, you know, maybe in, through more traditional manners like your parents were used to and then modern manners like TikTok and Instagram- Mm-hmm.that the younger generations are used to.But it's so 2022- Now everyone wants to be an influencer.Right, yeah.So I, I think you, uh, we're literally doing a podcast right now.I feel like podcasts- Here we are.only exist because people wanted to, like, get their voices out there, and we're not trying to be influencers or thought leaders, right?as I've talked to more and more people lately, I've realized how many people in my circle don't listen to podcasts at all.I'm like, "Hey, did you-" You're a big podcast guy.I wasn't big into podcasts until we started doing a podcast.Right.I don't listen to Joe Rogan.Okay.He's not, like, in my, my repertoire- Okay.my library, right?Not in your Rolodex.Right.But you sent that episode with Bernie Sanders on there and said that, "I thought that this was pretty life-changing, give it a listen."I said, "Okay, I haven't listened to Colin, like, 20," "for a year, uh, for a long time, so I'll give this one a listen."So one thing that Bernie pointed out in that episode was the utility of the podcast, right?It, we live in a day where, you know, at 1 point in this country, there were 3 TV stations, and everybody watched the same networks, right?ABC, CBS, NBC, and that was it, right?Now, we have an abundance of options in front of us, an abun- an abundance of different forms to receive our entertainment and information, and podcasting is, I think, one of the more useful forms in my mind, right?It's something that you allow for longer, in-depth conversations.Uh, you can explore a wide range of topics, and you also have choice.It's not infinite choice, but it's, it's a lot of choice.You've got many, many choices.Right?Um, and we get to maybe win, you know, some attention from some people, and that's great.Um, but I think, uh, I personally don't really watch traditional media so much anymore.Uh-huh.And I think most people my age, your age, Tori's age, are doing less and less of that,I don't know anyone, apart from people my parents' generation, that actually watch the news.Yeah.Every single one of their news articles or facts that they obtain is through social media, and that is me as well.We canceled our cable a long time ago, probably before the last election, and we haven't missed it at all.I feel like I haven't missed a single thing.Yeah.The moment everything just went down with Texas, I immediately had a notification about, oh, about 400 videos from- Yeah.people who were either taking photos and videos on their phone or from actual news outlets in social media.Yeah.And one thing, though, going back on the podcast that, um, I slightly disagree with is the idea of bias, because the reason why I ended up on that Bernie Sanders podcast was because I was pushed a clip of that podcast that made it look like it was a terrible interview.Mm-hmm.It was like a 20-minute, or sorry, a 20-second snippet of this argument that they had, and it turned out it wasn't even an argument.It was a full discussion.But I thought to myself, you know, "I should look at this."Mm-hmm."And I should look at this podcast and develop my own opinion on it."And when I actually listened to and watched the podcast, it turns out it was completely different than what was actually portrayed to me in that YouTube Short.So that, to me, was like I was pushed a, a biased opinion, and then once I actually watched the episode, was able to unpack my own opinion.But that is your bias.Your bias is that you are somebody who wants to unpack your own opinion, right?Right.So by literally getting pushed that video, you were pushed that video for a reason- Of course.right?Because of your own tendencies.Yeah.And then you saw that it was on Joe Rogan, right?Mm-hmm.The reason you were pushed this is because you've watched Joe Rogan before.Yeah, I have.Right?So it's, it's y- it's still you informing that decision, and that is your bias.Yeah, and that's what social media, though, and all podcasts do, and just like what we opened up this morning, that's not a bad thing.Right, agreed.But I guess, um, I think my point about the podcasting is that it's an evolution- Mm-hmm.of content.It is.Right?Um, and evolution is coming for this country in some way or f- shape or form, and I think that we can all point to AI and say, "That's probably gonna be the impetus for the next change in capitalism."And we should probably, as a country, start to prepare for whatever that might look like.But I think that wh- it's so hard.We sit here, and we say, "What can be done?"Right?You know, I stopped watching the news because it's like-It's overwhelmingly depressing.It's terrible.Yeah, and it is somebody else's bias that frequently I disagree with or I just-I, like, I just want facts.Can I find facts?No?Okay, well, I'm not gonna listen to you anymore.Um, but, you know, I think when you go to a podcast, you're looking for bias.I think when you turn on the nightly news, you're hoping there isn't.But there is.And unfortunately, there is.Um, but I think that going back to the UBI, going back to, um, you know, the influence ofLet's, let's look at the, the, the government and the influence of wealth on the government.You know, one thing that Bernie brought up was campaign reform.Sure.Right?And notHaving all the lobbying power, taking out of that.We've talked about this a lot in our industry.We have people coming and selling us products all the time.Constantly."Put your clients in this, put your clients in that."If we remove the sales from that relationship, right?What do you end up with?What do you end, do you end up with something that's good for your client or not?And the more we remove our relationship from the salespeople or, you know, from any other incentives, this is why we're fee-based, so we can remove incentives.The remo- the more we remove incentives, the better we feel about the work we're doing for our clients, and the government literally should be the same way.Well, this is what actually makes me excited about AI.We talk about an AI revolution, and we talk about people losing potentially jobs and whatnot, and certainly that's scary, but it can be extremely useful.And something that excites me about this is, let's just use portfolio research as a perfect example, removing the sales bias of it.Yeah.Perfect example.As opposed to having a, um, salesperson come in and say, "Buy my mutual fund," or, "Look at this product," or whatever it might be, and that's not specific to finance, it happens in every i- u- eh, eh, every, in any industry.What you could say is, "What is the best solution for this client?"Right."And which products are out there and which are the lowest cost and the highest performance?""Don't give me any sort of sales bias, I just want the specific facts and give me the 10 best and why."You could easily do that now.We do that now.Yeah.And to have those types of tools in our hands, that wasn't something that was available.I mean, 15 years ago, we were literally learning about mutual funds and index funds and investments through people coming into the office- Yeah.unless you were just building your own stock portfolio.Yeah, the research- That's how you did it.the research available was minimal.Very minimal.Yeah.Now it's a very different case.Yeah.And it evens the playing field, and I think that's actually why some people feel like it's really hard to outperform the stock market.There's no edge anymore, but it- It's efficient.Yeah, but it's, I feel like it's not efficient, but-that's another, that's another podcast.Sure.Um, so why can't we do that on a national level?You know?Like, I think it's because ourI personally feel like our moral compass and our motivation, our, our, the reason that we choose these investments for our clients isn't necessarily because we're fearful of losing the clients.It's because we think it's what's best for them, and I think that there are too many people in different positions in this country that are fearful of losing those positions, and so they don't even do what may be their own moral compass would suggest that they should do.That's a good statement.I like that.I mean, ultimately, if you're in a position when you're working with people and clients, you should be incentivized to do the right thing.Yeah.You know, you should be doing the right thing, and any tool that's not helping you in that, what are we doing here?Yeah.You know?Yeah.I recognize, though, that, that it's tricky.Like, let's say that, you know, you and I just run for offices instead, right?We leave everything we're doing behind.We run for office.We still want the opportunity to in- you know, improve our lifestyle, right?Or to grow wealth or whatever it might be, um, and you're limited in that capacity when you're in a public sector job, right?And then, at the same time, you're put out there for everybody to feast on, right?Especially in today's day and age, like everybody's there to pick you apart and judge you and, you know, threaten you.And it's- the risk is so severe, right?It's- I- I feel like it's the wrong incentives.You talked about this recently with teachers, right?Mm-hmm.You know, we- we need more teachers, we need better teachers and we can't get them because we're not paying them enough, right?So, how are we determining their value, I mean accurately?We're not.We- we're looking- we're basically trying to educate the future of this country with, you know, 2 people like with their hands actually tied behind their back and their- their mouth duct taped shut.Right.Well, i- if you go back in history, a lot of the issues with monarchies and governments of power, this is gonna be a tangent but I promise I'll tie it back- Mm-hmm.is incest.Okay.What a tangent.But if you look at it, right- If you would say.you have these massive super powers that are run- Yeah.by families- Yeah.and the families just, you know, do it between each other.Yeah.And then over time, you know, that leads to a lot of issues and intelligence falls and then they become vulnerable in countries-and other positions take over.Uh, yeah.And my purpose of this, of bringing this up, is to talk about the fact that you can't have an evolving and progressive nation without a good education system.Yeah.If your people in the country aren't super well educated and they're not supported, and if our kids aren't, you know, in the best position that they possibly can- Yeah.then that puts us at a massive disadvantage and in my mind, and if you look at other countries, like Japan is a perfect example, like teachers are like a super highly revered job.Yeah.And they're highly compensated, they've got great benefits.People look at them and it's like, "Oh, wow, like you're a teacher."Yeah."That's incredible."Versus like, "Oh, you know, you run a company."Like that's different, you know?That's- that's a different situation.But it's unfortunate and I'm gonna go back to the very beginning part of this podcast, I believe in capitalism.However, I believe currently that capitalism might be incentivizing the wrong things.Agreed, yeah.I think capitalism overall is a- is a worthwhile endeavor because it leads to the future, it leads to bigger creative things.Innovation, sure.Right.Um, but if we don't- if we don't- I don't wanna call it regulate.I don't wanna sound like I feel like everything should just be controlled.I feel like things can go too far in the opposite direction, though.They can become too unruly and I think that this chapter of capitalism arguably has become too unruly and I- I fear whatever it is that's going to shake us out of this current chapter and close this experiment because there will be something and it will impact people, a lot of people, in a pretty negative way unless we stick the landing.I was watching, uh, on the plane, 1 one of these flights I've been on recently, I was watching the first Avengers Endgame movie.Did you see that one?I thought it was Avengers, uh, the very first Avengers?No, the Endgame.Oh, the very, oh, no.Okay.Right, so, so there's basically it's when, you know, you've- they're fighting the- the big bad guy and he's like, you know, at the end of the mo- spoiler alert.At the end of this movie, half of human um, population is just killed off.Cool.Right?So- It sounds like a happy ending.So- so half the population is removed with the snap of a finger, and I don't snap very well but that, put a snap sound in, there you go, thank you.Um, so before this happens, um, there's a guy who's seeing all the different variations of the future and he sees like, I don't know, 300 thousand or a million different scenarios playing out and only one of them works.It's the only one situation in which the good guys win and I feel like maybe those odds aren't quite as dire in this world that we're living in right now.But I do think that there is a path forward without just massive suffering.I think that the odds are against it and I hope that we hit it and I don't know what it looks like so it's really hard to know what it is and how to hit it, um, but there is a way where we can navigate through to this other side where maybe we are so- we can produce our way or grow our way out of our current situation.I feel like there- there are people in government and in business that think that's what we're going to do.We're going to just evolve through this, through productivity, and if we do that and we get to the point where we have so much productivity that we are creating so much wealth, maybe nation state wealth, then maybe we can close some of that inequality gap.Going back to Jurassic Park.Naturally, as we do.As we always do, um, know?I saw the new one, by the way.Don't ruin it for me.Okay.Uh, Mother Nature always finds a way.I'm gonna relate that to the human spirit- Yeah.will always find a way and I think, um, America is a very resilient country in general and I think humans are.So, while I know we can be pessimistic about certain things in- involving capitalism and while I do truly believe that the education system and healthcare system in certain sectors need to be reworked-I am optimistic about the fact that there is a lot of technology out there to help us, and I do think that while AI will shake up certain areas, I do think that it can also help in a lot of ways as well.Just as a perfect example, um, you know, we were talking with another gentleman we work with who used AI to come up with a cancer diagnosis, and he brought that in, and it- Mm-hmm.completely revamped his entire workup and actually, um, was pretty impactful.And I think there are new technologies and things coming out that will help in a lot of ways.Will that change wealth and equality?I don't know.I think- And we won't know.I think anyone-that puts a blanket statement out there about this, like, we're in the very early stages right now.I mean, people said the internet was going to completely disrupt and eliminate a ton of jobs in the same way that they said that about a million different things before in the past.I mean, Y2K was supposed to be, like, the end all for computers.But we don't know, and that's the thing.I do think that the internet has touched almost every aspect of life, if not every aspect of life.Mm-hmm.And I do think that AI will do that as well.You brought up the fire department, right?It, the fire department has a website.Like, every- Every, every fire, every, everybody has a website.Yeah.Yep.And now even cert- My, my daughter has a website.And now even certain fire departments are using drones with AI to get to the fires before they do- Sure, yeah.and start putting 'em out.Dude, it's huge in China.Yeah.Like, so, I, I, I think that AI is going to change everything.I really, really do think that it's going to have some impact on every aspect of our lives.Um, it doesn't mean that it's gonna change human.It's not g- you know, it doesn't mean that it has to change who we are as people, but I don't know how it doesn't have some sort of influence.Of course it will.Right.Uh, I do think, though, it's- it's I don't want to sound pessimistic, and I don't feel pessimistic.I feel like a pragmatic optimist, and- Yes.I understand that while there is a threat, there are solutions that can be put into place, and hopefully we can navigate these, honestly, I think pretty treacherous waters ahead of us- Mm-hmm.um, with some sort of, uh, I think creativity, concern for the greater wellbeing.Um, I, I think we just need to care about the people around us and the fact that we can't leave people behind.Yeah.And it's possible, you, I, I'm fully, fully comfortable standing out on a ledge and saying, "The wealthiest people will not always be the wealthiest people."Of course not.Right?Yeah.So this wealth will go somewhere, sometime.It always happens historically.And there will be new wealthy people.Yeah.Exactly.And that's the way that it goes.Yeah.You know, you look at the Rockefellers.While he was the richest person, all that wealth was gone 2 generations later.Right.And it's- So-it's, you know, I don't know what that looks like.Every monarchy falls.You know, like every- everything changes eventually over time, and we may not be here to see it play out, but- Of course not, yeah.But I mean, it's just part of the journey, and all of these things that are going on that are really scary right now may come up with great solutions, and there will probably be a new scarier problem 10 years from now that we don't even know about.Yeah.And it's gonna be fascinating to see what ends up happening, but, um, hopefully, you know, things do improve and things get reworked and, you know, if not, there may be a rise of another nation or something that we don't even see.Or the machines will kill us all.Or the machines will kill us all.Enter the matrix.Enter the matrix, the Terminator- Yeah.or whatever, dystopian- All of those things.sci-fi,All right, well, I think- Yeah, let's wrap it up.this is a, yeah, it's a worthwhile topic.Um, I, you know, one thing that I would ask our listeners to do moving forward is to share some other topics that they'd like us to explore because you and I can keep coming up with what we think is gonna be useful for everybody to listen to, but, uh, if you guys have ideas, send them in.Leave it in the comments.Yeah.Comments.Leave it in the comments, but only say nice things.Yes.Listening back to this episode, I enjoyed taking the time to think about where we are as a capitalist society, how we got here, and where we can go.Capitalism can create opportunity for all, even if the opportunity isn't always equal.I think this is a perfect place for pragmatic optimism to come into play.We should walk into the future eyes open, aware of the problems we need to solve and how capitalism, at its best, can be used to solve them.Thanks again for listening.Please like, subscribe, share with your friends, and please, if you have any questions or topics you'd like to explore, send them our way.We'll be back next week.Colin's gonna have the same haircut.We'll see you then.Compound Growth with Wheeler and Colin, sponsored by Kofy Advisors.Reach out today, yay!