Compound Growth

Episode 24- The New American Dream: Freedom Over the 9-to-5

• Compound Growth • Season 1 • Episode 24

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What does the American Dream really mean today? In this episode, Wheeler and Colin sit down with Tori to unpack how our idea of “making it” has evolved—from owning a home and climbing the corporate ladder to building a life defined by flexibility, purpose, and balance. They dig into the generational shift from stability to freedom and how financial independence now looks more like personal choice than a picket fence.

The conversation moves from the roots of the American Dream to what’s shaping it now: the changing job market, the value of higher education, and how timing can determine opportunity. Wheeler shares data showing a surprising rise in unemployment among college graduates, while Colin reflects on how his own version of the dream has transformed with age and experience.

They close by talking about gratitude, perspective, and the power of redefining success at every stage of life. Whether your version of the American Dream means owning a home, traveling the world, or simply having the freedom to choose, this episode challenges you to rethink what you’re really working toward.

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Credits:
Created By: Wheeler Crowley and Colin Walker
Production Assistance: Tori Rothwell
Editing and Post-Production: Steven Sims

Welcome to the Compound Growth podcast with Colin and Wheeler, where we talk all things growth.From financial growth to career growth, personal development to societal progress, we explore how each layer builds on the next, compounding over time to shape who we become.Each week, we break down complex ideas and emerging trends into clear, actionable insights, because growth isn't just about numbers.It's about understanding the world and our place in it.The information in this material is for general information only and is not intended to provide specific advice or recommendations for any individual.Investment advice offered through Integrated Partners, doing business as CoFi Advisors, LLC, a registered investment advisor.Integrated Partners does not provide legal, tax, mortgage advice or services.Please consult your legal tax advisor regarding your specific situation.Past performance is no guarantee of future results.All investing involves risk, including loss of principal.No strategy assures success or protects against loss.The economic forecasts set forth in this material may not develop as predicted, and there can be no guarantee that the strategies promoted will be successful.All right.So we're doing this a little bit different today, because five and a half years later we're still dealing with COVID in our lives.So- Yes.Kaylee has COVID today, so to spare the rest of the office from contamination, I am home and, uh, I will probably be home for the next few days.So we're trying something new.Which is, I feel, the correct response.I understand that, you know, I don't wanna virtue signal and wear my mask around everywhere.But I do think that if people are sick, they should stay home from work, and that should be the policy everywhere.And if there's something that could seriously disrupt, say, Tori's birthday plans, we probably wanna take that seriously.So I've got some trivia for you guys, and it is Bible related.I was at church this past Sunday with the family, as I am known to do, like, a few times a year.I'm one of those, like, holiday churchgoers, holidays and things where my daughter is performing.Anyways, so we were there and they were talking about the Commandments.Do you guys know how many Commandments there are in the Old Testament?Well, there are Ten Commandments in the New Testament.I do know that.Mm-hmm.In the Old Testament, I don't know.21?20.Tori?I think 20.20?Wow, you guys, it's 613.I did not know that.I had no idea.There are so many rules, guys.And you had to, like, keep up with all of it back there or you'd get, like, stoned to death, right?Like it wasThere was a lot to know and a lot of j- Think about the judgment and shame in that community.I can't even tell you 613 laws right now.I couldn't remember 613 words, let alone Commandments.Rules.That's actually crazy to me.I, I didn't, I didn't know that.That blows my mind.I actuallyI'm not, again, not a big Bible guy, so I don't know a lot about the Commandments.But I, I reallyWhen you say Commandments, I think Ten Commandments.I don't think 613 Commandments.613 isn't as catchy as 10.That's true.Also, when you walk out of your door every morning with, like, a scroll to try to- Yeah.like, remember all of these things, and, like, every single time you do something you have to, like, look at the scroll.Do you think there was somebody who was walking around?Just, like, if, if youNot everybody had a scroll, but if there was one person, like the town scroller, that walked around and just, like, wrote tickets.The Commandment Guard.Shamed people.Yeah, the Commandment Guard.Uh, I don't know.Um, but I'm sure this isn'tI'm sure this isn't unique to Christianity.The amount of religious prosecu-prosecution going back across the thousands and thousands of years is endless.Um, but I did not know that there were 613 Commandments.No.That's crazy.How'd they get it into 10?Like, how'd they decide which ten they're gonna make?They distilled it down.And who distilled it down?Who did that?Well, I mean, again, it isn't just Christian, right?Because, like, the Old Testament, I think the f- the foundation of that is the Torah, right?So it's, it's not even just Christianity.It's just, you know'Cause there's shame everywhere.Yeah.There's judgment and shame- It's true.Yeah.everywhere.I'm with ya.Were you Catholic at school, Tori?You were, right?No?Not Catholic school, but I didI went to CCD.Okay, yeah.After public school.Well, I remember in our Learn About Tori episode, you had your first communion and then you had yourWhat's it called?The thing after that?Confirmation.Confirmation, yeah.So I didn't get married in the church.What's your confirmation name?I think it's Victoria.I think that was the name that I could pick.Yeah.But it's, like, a Bible- You guys get to pick names?You have to pick- Yeah.like, a Bible name.And, um, you- Mine's Thaddeus.That's fun.I didn't do anything fun.I just did, like, one that's close to me.Oh, really?Dude, you are such a Thad.I'm gonna- I know, yeah.That is crazy.I, uh, I wasI was likeI remember flipping through the Bible and all these names.Like, what's the most ridiculous name I could think of at the time?And, uh, that's what came to mind.That's amazing.Yeah.I was confirmed, but it was at the congregational church.And you would be surprised, but Wheeler is not a Bible name.You don't- Really?find my name-in the Bible.That is surprising.The Wheelmaker.Yeah.All right.So today we are talking about the American dream.What is it?How has it changed over time?Does it even still exist?Did it even first exist in the first place?And all that is super loaded.But I thought it would be a great place for us to start by asking you guys to each define the American dream.Like, what does it mean to the 2 of you?And let's go with Collin first.Age before beauty.Damn.I was gonna say, ladies first.Okay.I'll kick off.Uh, American dream or my own dream?Let's say the cl- like, your definition of the American dream, so what you think society thinks the American dream is.Okay.What I think people think is the American dream is I personally think home ownership is a big part of it, I personally think financial independence is a big part of it, I think retirement has historically played a huge role in the American dream, and I think American dream just as a whole is progress.I think people want to move to America because I think the American dream actually probably comes from a lot of foreign people coming into America.A lot of people move here seeking the American dream, and when I think of it that way, my mind kinda goes to, "Okay.Well, you're starting from the bottom.If you put in enough work, you can get to the top."So, that's the way that I think about it in regards to everybody else that's out there.Is that my American dream?Not necessarily, but that's- that's what I think, in my mind, most people think.Yeah.That's how you define it.Yep.Yeah.Tori?Yeah.I would agree with that.I would say it's starting from the bottom, kind of climbing a corporate ladder in a w- in a sense.It d- doesn't necessarily need to be corporate, but that's the way I envision it and I think society envisions it.And then kinda getting to the top, being financially free, beingLike, maybe settling down.I think there's a huge part of, like, having purpose and giving back to this kindI don't want to say, like, capitalism, like, society that we have, but it's, like, giving back to these big corporations as a, you knowAs- as their purpose of- of- So, you think it's corporate for the most part?I don't think it- That's very Japanese of you, Tori.I don't think it needs to be corporate, but I think that's what people view it as.Yeah.Yeah.So, the classic definition was actually coined by James Truslow Adams, who wrote The Epic of America in 1931, and in that, he described it as, "A dream of a better, richer, and happier life for all our citizens of every rank."And I think what's interesting is that the equality aspect of that, because you guys both, it was- it was individual desire and goals that you guys both highlighted, right?Like, improving your lifestyle, and that might be, like, everybody gets to do that.But I think that e- equality aspect of it is a really big part of it.What you said, Tori, it is very Japanese.Like, you're supporting the companies, right?And the company is like aIt's almost like a family there, not like in the icky, like America, "We're all family-" Icky guy." and that's why we work so"No, no, no.Sorry.Not icky guy.The opposite, icky.Just ick.Oh, okay.Got it.But anyways, yeah.I think- And I think that it was, to Collin's point, like, home ownership was definitely a big part of it, and growth and escalation that you guys both hit on, I totally agree with.And then you guys both brought up freedom, and I wonder if that's kind of what we think of now as the American dream.Like, being able to do what you wanna do, live the life you wanna live, financial freedom, personal freedom, et cetera.I was talking with, um, my sister's boyfriend who moved here from the Ukraine, and, uh, you know, I was like, you know, "What made you want to move to America?"And he said, "Because it's the only place that I know of where I can put in a lot of work to get ahead and get financial independence."And he moved to Canada first and then got, you know, some education background and now he's a nuclear physicist, moved to America, became a US citizen actually just a few months ago, from my understanding, and now has moved his way up the ranks.But he was like, "I couldn't ever do this in another country."And he was like, "The amount of work I had to put in to get it done was insurmountable when I first started."But he was like, "I just did a little bit of it every year for a ton of years," and now he has this fantastic job that's high paying and he's buying a condo.So that, to me, is the American dream for a lot of people too is like, you can put in work and get a return.And for him, that was the American dream as well.So I think that it's probably different for everybody, but to his point and to your point too, there's a lot of freedom baked into that.You know, theL- like if you put in work and if you can get financial resources to do things like buy a home or rent, to travel or not travel, to buy a car or lease a car, to have all of these different options, that to me is freedom.Yeah.Yeah.And it, and it comes with a certain, like, financial security, right?Right.So what kinda got me thinking about all this right now is, obviously, a lot of what you just touched on, coming to America, building your life, et cetera, improving your quality of life and then hopefully probably passing that on to the next generation, that is certainly a hot topic in our country right now because immigration has been, I guess, a focus for the last couple of decades and is certainly more of a news focus now.And so that's always going on and then you have the issues with unemployment rising and, you know, going to college and, and having a hard time getting a job.Actually, I'm gonna share my screen because we're doing this remotely and I get to, to share my screen.So for everybody at home, what I am actually going to show here is a chart detailing the unemployment rate with a 24-month moving average over the last, like, 25 years, let's call it.And what's interesting here is when we go through these peaks and valleys in the employment where we have a higher unemployment number or a lower unemployment number, m- regardless of what kinda degree you got, it, it moves more or less in lockstep.You know, like the financial crisis might affect you more if you have a bachelor's degree because you're making more money and so it's a bigger line item to cut, right?The high school graduates in 2008, 2007, et cetera, they didn't go d- that unemployment, if you were a high school graduate, your participation or your contribution to the unemployment rate was likely not to be as high than if, if you had a college degree.But most of the time, regardless of your degree, when we go into a recession or come out of a recession, it all kinda moves together and all these different education levels make up the same unemployment rate, or they contribute to the unemployment rate the same way.We're at a situation or in a situation right now where that's not the case, and for the first time in a long time, a bachelor's degree isn't as promising in terms of long-term unemployment rates.You're seeing more peopleSo long-term is 6 months.Like, if you're out of work for 6 months and you're still filing unemployment or, or haven't been able to find employment, that's considered long-term.And right now, you can see that light green line on the chart there, that's saying that 60% of the unemployment claims are college degree.It'sLooking at this is, um, 1, kinda funny to me because I graduated college in 2012 and then, uh, there were no jobs, so then I went back in 2013 and completed my master's and there were still no jobs.And, uh, that was like the absolute peak of the unemployment, uh, over the last, I'll say, 20 years.25 years, actually.Um, looking at it now, it's amazing kind of just how predictableNot predictable, but just how many peaks and troughs there are over a 25-year period, and it does seem like it's basically every 8 years that something like this happens.Um, that to me isn't super surprising that people with bachelor's degrees are having a harder time getting a job because it's so saturated at the moment and there's a limited amount of jobs out there for that, what people are kinda seeking, in my mind.Um, so that's not surprising to me that that might be a leading indicator for where things are going.Well, I think it'sYou're, you kinda hit on something that's really interesting because a lot of your, I think, financial success can be determined by when you graduate college or when you graduate high school and enter the work field full-time.So, like, if you graduate into the teeth of a recessionYou know, so I graduated in 2004, unemployment was fairly high at the time, although lower than it is, like, or was during the bigger recessions.And then, you know, I went to grad school and along that way, it would have been a really good time for me to find a job.So I kinda, like, delayed my search for a job in what was actually a pretty good opportunity to get a job.But, you know, depending on when you graduate from college, you can have Tori here graduating inYou know, COVID is its own thing, but if, you know- Mm-hmm.post- COVID, you had really low unemployment rates.It's been really easy to find a job for the last few years.And I think if you took COVID out of this, if you, if you just kind of erased that spike, which is, is all COVID, you, you know, from 2020 all the way to '23, '24, '25 is all pretty good.And now that we get further into 2025, we're seeing that hike in unemployment again, and that's kind ofI think it'sMaybe it's not surprising, but I think it's, uh, something to be aware of if you're coming out of college or if you have a college degree and you're looking for work.I think we're definitely entering into a slower hiring cycle, and that's apparent by pretty much every single conversation we're having with every client or every manager that we have as a client who would normally be hiring that isn't right now.Um, with that being said, though, if you're not looking for something that requires a bachelor degree, there seemingly is a lot of options out there for you.Um, that's not to say there are no jobs out there, but the jobs that I would say most people are looking for with a bachelor's degree are harder to get.Yeah.It'sI, I mean, I, I think what's most interesting with this spread here is that, you know, if we say it's 60% for college degre- or college grads, for high school, it's like 11, 12%.Yeah.Um, if youIt looks like the lowest here is less than a high school diploma.So like if you didn't even graduate high school, know, your contribution to the unemployment rateAnd part of this is it's all percentage-based.Like, so how much of a percentage canLike, you know, there are fewer people, or maybe there are more people now that have college gr- or college degrees or graduate degrees or high school degrees.There are fewer and fewer high school dropouts that are a part of the labor force.Well, something that I think about a lot is a lot of the times when our clients retire, they wanna do something part-time.And we have some people that will, like, go work at a restaurant or start some sort of small business or even, like, go work at Whole Foods for fun, and they never seemingly have a problem getting any of those jobs.And whenever we drive around, I mean, I'll just say last night, like, I was driving around, and I was doing errands, and almost every single store that I walked into had a help wanted sign.Hm.Yeah.Every single grocery store had a help wanted sign.The restaurant we got takeout from had a help wanted sign.The gas station that I got gas from had a help wanted sign.We're hiring right now, currently, and I know it's the same case with a lot of other firms that are our size.So, there are jobs out there, but I think clients that I talk to that are maybe struggling finding the jobs are like the traditional, like, tech sales roles, corporate jobs where you're moving up that corporate ladder, which is kind of full circle to where we started our conversation today, where moving up the corporate ladder is maybe more difficult because there's fewer opportunities to do that.So, I guess the question then is if the American dream was, like, you know, get a house, upward mobility at work, like, it became more and more expensive to get a house.It became more and more expensive to get a degree that allowed for that upward mobility.And now, you're right, like, I don't think it's quite appropriate to compare hiring at Ko-Fi to hiring at Market Basket, but I think, like, if you do drive around and you see these help wanted signs, they don't require college degrees to get those jobs, but can those jobs buy you the American dream?Probably not in the sense that we defined originally.It's probably not going to buy you the house.It's probably not going to maybe give you the same trajectory as certain corporations would earlier on.But once again, this could just be a slow cycle, and if I was to go back a year and a half ago, it seemed like everybody was changing jobs constantly, and they were constantly switching into tech sales roles, and they were constantly switching into programming roles or different management positions.Now it seems like it's fewer and far between.And that's not to say that unemployment will spike up for a while here, but at some point, you know, in theory, it will drop again, we hope.But yeah, it's, it's tough to predict.Tory, I was listening to the Meet Tory episode this week, and you mentioned that the house with a white picket fence and the family, et cetera, is not necessarily your American dream, right?Mm-hmm.And that coincided, while I was listening to that, with Jess running into our daughter's preschool teacher, who has retired and is working at the local CVS.And obviously, as a preschool teacher, she prob- she didn't make too much money along the way.But she works at the CVS to support her travel, like she just, she loves traveling.The only reason she works is to support the travel.I don't know if she has a house with a white picket fence.Her sister is the CEO of a major corporation, and j- he, she just dropped it kinda casually, like, "Oh, yeah, she's"And it's, you know, it's, you know, consumer staples, large corporation that we would all know.But they have totally different lifestyles.They came from the same place.Mm-hmm.And it's interesting to me the same family can produce 2 children, 2 daughters that have totally different American dreams.And, you know, your dream of travel and financial independence and, and doing whatever you wanna do is maybe more a- in alignment with the modern best case American dream.I feel like that makes sense when they do opposite things, because, like for me, it's like I've gotten to see my siblings do, take all these different routes.Like I have 3 examples of paths to take, and if I don't like any of them, I can do my own.Or if I find, oh, I like what my brother does or what my sister does, I can take that path like behind them type of thing.Not like literally in their job, but just saying, like do the, the corporate life, do the startup life, do theI have a sister that works at just like a car dealership, like very, she's, doesn't have a college degree, so she's, it's, I saw that path.I saw, I've seen every path, and it's like, I get to kinda choose my own on what I wanna do.But I think it actually makes sense in a family setting where one sibling takes one path and one takes a completely different one.Tory, what is your American dream?My American dream right now is, I, I feel like I said this in my episode 2, is just like having the ability, the freedom to do what I want to do, and not have to stay here for certain things, not have to say no to certain things.Like I get to create my own life and I don't have to follow a structure is my American dream, which is probably the opposite of what I explained society's American dream was.So flexibility- Direct opposite, basically.Yeah.Flexibility, yes, and just opportunity in like creating in a way.Wheeler, what's yours?You know, it's funny.I'm privileged enough to say that I think I'm living my American dream.I think that the way that you defined the American dream back in the day, you know, I have a house, I have a family, I have had, in my life, upward financial mobility.You know, historically, you used to, there was a, a period of time if you were born in, in 1940, and you were 4, you know, my age in the '80s, you, there was a 90% likelihood that you make more money than your parents did.And that's not always the case anymore, but it was a part of that like concept is just like it's a, it's a generational goal for your family to continue to do better and better and better and better.And my mom worked really hard as a single income teacher, you know, with 2 boys, to put us in a position to have that success, right?And to, to build on what she did, and to, to put us in the place where we are today.And we've been adjusting my family to my daughter being gone for 9 hours a day, right?We, you know, she, we get up earlier.Now that she's in middle school, it's a longer commute to her school.The days are really long.And I'm sitting here griping about my 9hour days when part of my day is recording this podcast with you guys, which is great.Jess is reminding me that our 9hour days used to be like 10 hours when she was in preschool, and we were, I was driving an hour plus to Boston every day in rush hour traffic.And, you know, Jess was driving to another, you know, area in Massachusetts.We'd drop off Mikayla at like 8:00 or before 8:00 and pick her up at 5:30 and we're, you know, it'sAnd then get home and be exhausted as new parents of a, a toddler.It, you know, it's, it's all about perspective, and that perspective is all pre-COVID.It's so far away from me that I can't remember it anymore.And now we're in a situation where this podcast that I l- I enjoy recording with you guys, we weren't able to do it in person today because of the vid here, but we're still recording.Like we were able to pivot, and you know, this, I'm presumptive here, Tory, but if you still enjoy working with Ko-fi while you're traveling the world, there's a way for us to do that now because of the age that we're living in.So I think it's, it's very cool that we are where we are.It's not the same for everybody, and I don't think it's ever been the same for everybody.I think there's always been inequality and inequity in this country.I've saw thatIt wasn't until, I think, 1971 that women were guaranteed to have their own credit.Right?Like, you could get credit, but it wasn't guaranteed, and you needed a man- Yeah.to get it with you.Right?You couldn't open your own credit card, yeah, that, that, that's in- 1971 is like my mom.Yeah.Mine was- Like, that is like not-It's one generat- it's literally your parents, and it's like- Yeah.It's crazy to think that.So, so I think that's, it is hard to define, I feel like, an American dream, 'cause I really do think so much has changed in the last, I mean, literally the last 5 years, let alone the last 25.So, I don't know, I feel like we're all creating our own American dream, like, every single day.But it is individualistic.You guys brought up individualized, right?And it, it can't be, it's not a blanket.The one that was coined in like 1930, I don't think that ever existed.The dream maybe did, but I don't think it was ever achieved.I don't know, Collin, I talked for a while.What's your American dream?Well, I was just gonna say, I think it's, it's different, and Tori, you touched on this in your podcast episode, and I, I agree with it, which, you know, you're younger right now and have flexibility is really important to you.And when I was in my 20s, flexibility is everything.But now I find myself getting older, and I'm resonating more with Wheeler's American dream, which is the house, the family, the, you know, ability to travel is great, but I don't wanna travel all the time.Like, one or 2 vacations a year is great for me, and, but when I was in my younger years, I couldn't sit still, you know?I needed to travel all the time, and I would just go by myself and fly somewhere for the weekend or a week and do whatever it is I wanted to do.So, I, I guess it does change and evolve over time, but for me specifically, I find myself resonating with the American dream of the past more recently, where kinda do want the house, I do want the family, I do want the ability to grow financially and have growth in that aspect of my life.And Kaylee is resonating with it more and more as well, because she would love to be a stay-at-home mom, and she would love to kind of take care of the household and the kids and all of that good stuff.So, not only I think is it individualistic, but I think it's also changes pretty dramatically as you get older.I was just having a conversation with my dad recently, and he retired 2 years ago, and I was asking him, I was like, "How was the transition to retirement?"And he goes, "You know, I thought my 20s were great, until I got to my 60s."And he was like, "My 60s are the best years of my life."He was like, "I have money, I have access to good healthcare, I can travel whenever I want, I've got a great group of friends, my kids, you know, are out of the house and they're successful, you guys are my friends now."Like, he was just going through all this stuff in his life that was so great.And his goals now are to reduce the, I'll say, amount of financial stress that he has in his life.So, moving from a house to a condo with my mom, and having less cars and stuff to take care of and more flexibility.So it's like going back to your 20s, where you want- Mm-hmm.flexibility again.You don't wanna have the financial burdens.You wanna be able to do what you wanna do.So, where I think the financial dream is kinda funny is it reminds me of the unemployment rates, where it's very much like valleys and peaks, where at 1 point in time you want stability, at other points and times you want flexibility, and it's gonna change throughout your life.Yeah.I also think like part of the American dream is the ability to change, and I think that may be what I more meant going back, is just the flexibility, but knowing that this is what I want right now, and I wanna be able to do, like, what I want right now.And then when that changes, I, I can, I can transition into that.I will be able to retire and travel again in my 60s if I wasn't able to do that for the past 20 years before that.So, I think that, that's how I look at it.Yeah.And I mean-to Wheeler's point as well, to me, the American dream is progress.And even 10 years ago, I don't even know if we'd be able to be doing this podcast remotely at the moment.Like, you look at just the last 10 years and the amount of technology we've had break through.Like, same-sex marriage wasn't even legal 10 years ago, and now it is.It's like the amount of stuff- Crazy.that's changed over the last 10 years to give us more freedoms and opportunities, social progress, medical progress, so that way we can prioritize focusing on what it is that we want.Whether it's flexibility or stability, whatever it might be, um, is an option.And I think that, to me, is the American dream.Collin, you touched on something.You may remember this Dartmouth study from a couple years ago.Do you guys remember wha- they, they figured out what?TheyI think they surveyed 132 different countries, and they analyzed 132 different countries of different wealth levels, but most of them were already established, and it suggested that peak unhappiness was at a certain age.And I'm curious if either of you guys can figure out on the spot when peak unhappiness is and when peak happiness is?Great question.This is so hard 'cause I feel like it could literally be in your 20s easily, 'cause I think that's a hard time for people, like transitioning into the world.Mm-hmm.Or it could be, like, middle of the road.I think maybe, like, 40.I'm going peak unhappiness is late 30s.Okay, so peak unhappiness is 47.I'm almost there, guys.I've almost bottomed out.Just, just get over the hump.Yeah, I just gotta get through these next few years.And then peak happiness.So, I think it's, it's when you have the most responsibilities in life.I think ch- for most people, right, you haveIn your 40s, you have a family if you're in this American dream.You also have aging parents, so you're in this kinda sandwich generation.Um, and then you have a lot of work stress.You have a mortgage maybe.You know, there's a lot happening.So, there'sThat's why I think peak 40 or peak unhappiness is at 47.And then it's kinda like a U-curve on this chart.So it'sAnd I actually don't have this chart to share, but it, it startsYou have a lot of freedom when you're young, to Collin's point, and then when that freedom kind of dissipates and the responsibilities take over, you've bottomed out, and then you work your way back up like Collin's dad.And peak happiness is 70, right?And that's before, theoretically, on average, your body starts to break down.You know, you start to get a little bitMaybe some doomerism creeps in.You start to worry about the end of days, et cetera.Now, I think that there are a lot of people that would argue with all of this, but this is, like, just averages we're talking about here.I know my mom is very content to sit outside and stare at the clouds and just think all day, and that makes her very happy.But this is in line with what Collin just said, right?And what's interesting is the reasons that cause unhappiness, you know, are, uh, kind of in the face of the American dream.If the American dream is to get a house, get kids, increase job responsibilities, all of those things are stressors and complexities in your life, and then you kind of get to benefit from maybe some of that later on down the road and have more freedom and finance.What I think is crazy about this is, uh, the deferred gratification.And obviously, not everybody has the privilege to retire at 47 years old so you could forego a lot of this stress.Yeah, right.But with that being said, if you really want, I'll say, your 60s and those really happy years, a lot of that comes down to the amount of work and effort you put in in your 40s and 30s and 20s, because if you don't do the right decisions and you don't make the right decisions to try to save and build up that nest egg and corporate ladder, like, you may not have that same happiness level when you get to your 60s.And when I was talking with my dad about this, he w- would very much resonate with what you said, and I think it's the case with a lot of our clients who I know busted their hump in their 40s and 50s at their jobs to try to save as much as they could so they could retire and live the life that they wanna do.So, the American dream can sometimes be a lot of pressure and could maybe, at times, be a nightmare in your 40s, and put a lot of pressure on you in regards to making sure your 60s are really taken care of.And i- it just goes back to one of our clients.Bill always talks about this.It's not necessarily about your lifespan, it's about your healthspan.Yup.And if you get into your 60s but you're unhealthy and you're unable to do the things that you wanna do, then that's really tough.And when you're going through this and you're really stressed, it's important to, in, uh, your words, Wheeler, take a pause and make sure that you are taking care of yourself physically and mentally when you're under that level of stress, so that way you can actually enjoy those later years in life.See, Collin, you're gonna get me in trouble again.Those are Jessica's words.If you keep giving me credit for Jessica's words, I am going to get continuous headaches.I'll just say not my words, someone else's words.Someone else's words.And then I'll let you guys, I'll let you guys sort that out.Most wisdom comes from my wife, I've f- I've found.Even if, even if I have natural wisdom that I, I stumble upon throughout life, my ability to soak up that wisdom is because I have Jess in my life.Like, she- You are-helped me to figure out what to link, think.You are merely a vessel.Yeah.Yes.Now we're getting religious again.Yeah, exactly.It comes c- it comes f- full circle.You know- Right.it's funny bec- my 20s were not full of freedom.Like, they, maybe they were ideally, but I didn't have anyI was broke.I didn't have any- Oh, yeah.money to go, like, hop on a plane.IWhen I wanted to come back East to see my friends, I literallyMy friends, like, got together and bought me a plane ticket, 'cause I couldn't do it on my own.And it was- That's so nice.It was so nice.And when we got here, I bought them bagels, 'cause that's what I could do .So thank you, Cliff and Steve.No, I do feel like your 20s are, like, a hit or miss with if you enjoy them or not.Like, sometimes I feel like your 20s can really be a struggle if you're on your own and moving, like, moving around and trying to doUgh, I don't know, all the things.There's a lot of pressure to do everything in your 20s and it feels dis-, like, heartening when you can't do them.You wanna know what's tough about your 20s, is no one likes you.I like you, Tory.My God.That's not how I feel.Not you specifically, Tory.Not you specifically, Tory.But, like, you're coming out, you think you've got, like- Like-the world by the reins, you know?No, you're right.And then you're like, wait a second, I'm at an entry level job and I'm really not making enough money to pay ends meet and I can't really do anything that I want.And then you're like- Mm-hmm.trying to figure out all these new social circles and, you know, the, all, everything you had in college is now gone.And no one celebrates your birthday that much anymore.It's not like high school and college where people would throw parties for each other andNobody's giving Tory money on her birthday anymore .No one's- Tory's not giving- No one's giving me money?Tory's not giving passbook money anymore, so .No, it's true.It is true.It's like you justIt's a really adjustment period for yourself.I feel like you also don't evenYou figure yourself out in your 20s, hopefully, that happens, butAnd then everything else kind of follows suit.But it's difficult.It's, like, really difficult.I feel like you change paths so many times.It's like zigzag sometimes in your 20s, soI heard this- Yeah.thing that, umI think this actually might've been my dad too.I remember when I was graduated from college and he said, uh, to me, "20s is where you try to figure yourself out.30s is where you find a career.40s is where you start to get good at it.50s you master it.60s you retire."and then it's like- Mm-hmm.He was like, I thought I was really good at my job until I got into, like, my 50s, and I had been doing it for 25 years.But, anyway, life is a journey, and to that point, I'll say that there are different ebbs and flows to it, and I'm hoping that my 60s are gonna be awesome, and that's what I'm kind of banking on myself, soI'm banking on- That's my American dream.Yeah, all of our years.It seems like we need your dad on here.Yeah.Yeah.WeItColin's dad- Yeah, right.is gonna be a future guest, for sure.Yeah .He can pass on all these nuggets.That would be an interesting one.I'll have to get him to start listening.Yeah .That's a good start.He doesn't even need to listen.He can just come on.He seems full of- Yeah.of wisdom.He can be like Malcolm, where he's just like, "You guys have a par-All right, I'm, I'm there."I'm there.I'm doing it.Yeah.You know, Colin, I think what's tricky is you brought up a real world example of, like, a modern immigration story that can be inspirational or aspirational, and I feel like when we advertise the American dream, historically, that's what it is, right?Immigrant comes to the country, builds a new world for themselves, right, and their families.It's, it's good to hear stories like yours, 'cause those are not the stories I hear most of the time, and it's not your s- personal story, but the story that you shared.Uh, what's, what's really tricky is sometimes this American dream feels very loaded and, and full of, likeIt'sIt goes back to the shoulds that I was talking about.You know, it'sI didn't end upWe were a part of the Catholic Church until my parents got divorced and then we weren't allowed to be a part of the Catholic Church anymore.But, I got plenty of guilt along the way, and all of the shoulds that we tackle in life or that are put upon us, like, I feel a constant need to acknowledge privilege and to s- you know, I feel almost bad, I feel guilty that I'm living an American dream and there are so many people who aren't.That's fair.There are people that struggle with that, and that's gonna be the case in any society.I mean, ultimately, and this is a, a tough reality, I think, is that even in socialism, there are winners and losers when it comes to certain things.And to define what a winner is and a loser is, is often defined by society, which also isn't really fair.So, certainly, the American Dream is different for each person, and then there are other times as well where it's more difficult to achieve for one person than it is another.In the case of my sister's boyfriend, he was very directed in exactly what it is that he wanted to do.And it's the same thing with some of our other clients who have moved here from other countries and have become doctors or successful business owners, or whatever it is.I can think of 3 right off the bat, but there are a lot of other instances where that's not necessarily the case.Without knowing much about what it takes to come here and do that sort of thing, and just hearing these success stories, you can romanticize about it, but that's not to say that it's easy.And I think that the American Dream shouldn't be easy.I think that there's a lot of reward in working hard, and, um, I know that when I was talking to my sister's boyfriend, that if it was handed to him and if he didn't have to bust his butt for 7 years trying to get it, he probably wouldn't be as appreciative of it, without making any presumptions.So, that's, that's the way I feel about it.Yeah.I think what's interesting is, you know, when I think about our conversation today and, you know, how your dad, I know he worked really hard, he imparted a lot of wisdom along the way, but he really contributed to getting you positioned for success, and I know my mom did the same thing.I know Jessica's parents did the same thing.And they, I, I think, and I can't speak for your family, Collin, but I know that my mom and my mother-in-law were notI don't think they felt like they were living the American Dream.I think they felt like they were busting their, their butts to get it to the place where we could, and maybe they can reflect on it and say they achieved the dream.I don't know.You'd have to ask them.But so much of it is just kind of building upon, it's that compound growth.It's building upon itself, and if we don't take time to reflect and have gratitude about that, I feel like it's really helpful toBecause I get pretty angry sometimes at my mom for, for like, being like, "Why are you sitting at the clouds?Go do something."Maybe she's achieved her dream and at the same time, as a parent, I start to feel the responsibility of, "Well, how am I gonna set my daughter up for success?"Because now you have people talking about, not how they're gonna pay for college, but how they're help, gonna help their kids buy a house or, you know, support themselves as they navigate perhaps a, a difficult workforce.Yeah.I, I think about that too, and kinda going back to that ebbs and flows and cycles, what might feel like the American Dream one day might feel like a nightmare the following, and the amount of pressure and stress that you're under.Like, you know, I was thinking to myself, a few weeks ago, we had like, uh, a lot of stuff happen in one week, and it wasn't all positive, and it was a tough week.It was just a lot.And at the end of it, I was having a conversation with Kayleigh about just how it was like, a really tough, kinda crappy week work-wise and all this other stuff, and she was like, "At least you had the opportunity to have a bad week."And you know, it's just like one of those things where you work hard because you have the ability to hopefully one day get ahead, and that's why you do it.So, I guess having the opinions and the gratitude, like you mentioned, Wheeler, is important to give yourself clarity and a good foundation along the way.So that way, it's like that Office quote.I think I sent to you a few weeks ago, but Tory, you watch The Office, right?Okay.Andy Bernard one day was talking to the camera, and he was saying, "The problem with the good old days is you never know you're in the good old days until they've passed, and wouldn't it be great if you could recognize him when they're, when you're in 'em?"I think there's always gonna be phases in life where you look back to and you're like, "Man, that was really tough, but that was fun."And that could be the case right now, and you won't know it until it's further down the line.But to have that foundation of appreciation is important.Sometimes the good old days weren't too good.No.But they are the old days.Right.So, yeah, yeah.Important to have gratitude.Tory, any parting thoughts?No, I, this is a great conversation about the American Dream, and I'm excited to achieve my American Dream.You're already doing it.I know.I feel like I am.It's fun.We are excited for you to, to achieve that dream, Tory.We're excited for everybody- Yeah.you know, and to achieve the dream, and we wanna help them do it.So- Yeah.Thank you for allowing us the opportunity to help.Thank you for employing me.Anytime, Tory.All right, guys.Thanks, all.All right.Thanks.Bye.with Wheeler and Collin sponsored by CoFi Advisors.Reach out today.Yay!