Compound Growth

Episode 27- Tara Ryan: The Human Side of AI and the Fair Play Revolution

• Compound Growth • Season 1 • Episode 27

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In this powerful episode, Colin and Wheeler welcome Tara Ryan, Co-founder and CEO of Confidante, an AI-driven platform supporting mothers as they navigate the invisible weight of modern motherhood. Tara opens up about the inspiration behind Confidant, which evolved from a custom GPT for her coaching clients to a dedicated, mother-centered AI designed to be an accessible "thought partner" and "advocacy helper". The conversation unpacks the heavy realities of the gendered division of unpaid labor, exploring the domestic, emotional, and cognitive labor that often falls disproportionately on women. This discussion aligns with the Compound Growth mission of helping listeners think more clearly and feel more grounded in life's complexities.

The hosts dive deep into the technical and ethical challenges of building a specialized AI, including the necessity of a "human in the loop" to monitor for safety and ethical alignment. Tara discusses how her team meticulously engineers the AI's "personality" and uses frameworks like RAG (Retrieval-Augmented Generation) to ensure Confidante remains a values-based decision-helper, focused on maternal support rather than profit-driven data sales. Colin and Wheeler reflect on their own experiences as partners and parents-to-be, appreciating the value of a non-judgmental space to process complex emotional and relational challenges.

Finally, Tara, a certified Fair Play facilitator, breaks down the Fair Play method—a system for fairly dividing household tasks based on defining a "minimum standard of care" and owning a task's Conception, Planning, and Execution. This conversation is a compelling exploration of personal development and societal progress, illustrating how thoughtful technology can lead to deeper human connection and better self-advocacy. Tune in to understand how the intersection of AI and human growth can help cultivate a healthier "information diet" and a more intentional life.


Find Tara: 

Confidante: https://www.confidantemoms.com/ 

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tara-ryan-cpc-bb147a20/ 

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Credits:
Created By: Wheeler Crowley and Colin Walker
Production Assistance: Tori Rothwell
Editing and Post-Production: Steven Sims

Jess and I are going away for our anniversary this weekend.Ooh.And we go to the same place in Vermont where we got married every year.Stowe?Well, it's not Stowe- Oh, okay.We actually got married in, uh, in Ludlow, Okemo, Vermont.Right.You hear of like the- Yes.Okemo Mountain in Ludlow, Vermont?Yep, yep.So, we got, we got married there and our favorite restaurant in town, they only have a few reservations available a month and they release them all at midnight on the 1st of the month.Is this Hunt of the Woods?No, this is not Hu-That's, that's actually closer to Stowe.That's really good.That's- Yeah.That's really good.But this, it's called Downtown Grocery.Mm-hmm.Oh, okay.Right?So, I have to, or Jess and I- Yeah.will both either set an alarm to wake up at like 11:55, or i- as I chose to do last night, and Jess did- Stay up.as well, just stay up.Yep.Right?So, we're up and we'reYou know, you're, you have to be very, very quick.Yeah.So, we both have our phones open and she's like trying to get the Friday reservation, I'm trying to get the Saturday reservation.They're gone in minutes.Wow.Just like everything is totally gone.It's a small little restaurant in Ludlow, Vermont and nobody knows about it- Yeah.except for the people who know about it.Yep.Right?Yeah.So- And October probably too is big.Yeah.Foliage season.That's peak foliage.Yeah.Yeah.Everyone's there.And it's, it'sWhat's cool about this restaurant is it's just a husband and wife team.The husband's in the kitchen.The wife runs the front of the house and serves and does the cocktails and everything.So, it's like- I love that.you go and you're at their house for like 3 hours.Wow.And there's like multiple courses, and it's, it's really, really great.So, the problem is that at the same time, Michaela has started middle school- Right.and gets up even earlier in the morning.So now, like, I'm going to bed after midnight.I'm waking up at 6:00, and it's, it's just exhausting.So I'm a little tired today and I apologize.Jess is like, "Why did you schedule this coffee-" "at 8:00 AM and this podcast at 9:15 and then this other meeting at 11:00?"I'm like, "Well-" Ugh." you're right."Yeah.You'll get it all done in the morning.Yeah.You know?Yeah, you'll be wrapped up.Yeah.But, so we're telling Michaela that weReminding her that we're a little bit tired.BeGo easy on us- Yes.with your teenager attitude this morning.How'd that go?Did sheYeah, did she- Yeah, did she, um-plan a sleepover?She was like, well, she- She said, "Why, why are you tired?"And we tell her.She's like, "Well, why don't you just hire a bot to do this?"And I was like, "What?"Oh my god.So, this was actually a seminal moment in the Crowley- Wow.household today because this is the first time my daughter said something technologicallyI know what a bot is.Yeah.But I wouldn't know where to start, like I have no idea.This is the first time.She does things that I don't know how to do all the time but I could figure those things out.She's caught up to you in the race.She has surpassed me.This isLike, I would never have thought to have a bot try to make this reservation.I wouldn't trust a bot to do it.But also, I don't know how to do that and my daughter, like- Does she?does she know how to do it?Right?Do you know how to set up a bot?Well, I mean, I have built a custom GPT.There you go.But I don't know that it would be sophisticated enough to automate a very preciousYes.That's- Yes.where the human in the loop- Yes.is needed- Yeah, trust.when there is a very, very precious thing on the line, right?We talk about finances being precious, but I would say dinner reservations are even ahead of that.Yes.This is a r-This is a once a year thing.It can happen- It's important.you know?I would beI, I would be remiss to say that my dinner reservations are very important to me.Yes.You know?Well, especially when it's at a spot, like, that's so val-You know, it holds so much value to, to you and your family, soYeah, yeah.Oh, that's funny though.I know.I justIt scares me.And then today on the, on the car ride to the bus stop, 'cause we have to drive to the bus stop, um, she was, you know, getting her texts was likeShe wasHer phone was blowing up with texts and then she's like, "Ugh, everybody I know is on social media."And I'm like- you just silence them?"Ugh, this is just"It's, it's hard.It's so much harder now.And you, you're at the early stages of- Yeah.parenthood, but you, you know, I know that you know a lot of moms and- Yep.and dads, and, uh, it's just different raising a kid now.Yeah.It's hard to hold a boundary, right, when there's so many other people that are not holding that boundary around you.Yes, yes.Mm-hmm.And, um, I think that's the hardest part.I think you've talked about boundaries on this show before.And, um, isIt's not really setting it because oftentimes you're setting that from a place that is very values-driven.Mm-hmm.It's the repercussion, right, the like pressures that you receive from others- Absolutely.when setting the boundary- Yes.Yeah.that makes it so hard.Pressures and judgment.Yeah, yep.And like- Your community.really why.Yeah.And I, and, and I'll be just as bad.I'll have my- Mm-hmm.Our best friends, they started showing their kids, likeThey, they were, they were gonna watch all the Star Wars movies and I'm likeWhenDo you rememberHave you seen all the Star Wars movies?No.Okay.Colin?Big fan.Okay.Yeah.Torby?No?Okay.All right.You can talk to me about it.I'm gonna spoil the second or the third movie?The third- That's okay.Episode III?Episode III.Okay, got it.There's literally just like a massacre of children in this movie.Okay.And I'm like- Yeah, it's not super kid-friendly.It's not, and I'm like, you know- It's a very dark movie.And it's, it's soI get it.I'm likeSo when they first did that, that was like 3 years ago and their kids were like six and seven, or six and eight, something like that, and I was like, "I don't know.That's like a lot toLike, there's all these other kid movies that they could go with."But now his daughter is watching Alien and Jaws.Oh, no.Wow.Wow, that's bold.Like, wow, man.That'sAnd I'll sit there, I'll be like, "I can't believe you showed me that."And I like pass the judgment and then like when I receive the judgment from people, I'm like, "Why are you judging me?"Right.I know.We're human, right?I know.Yeah, no one's perfect, I guess.Oh, my god.Yeah.Welcome to the Compound Growth podcast with Colin and Wheeler where we talk all things growth.From financial growth to career growth, personal development to societal progress, we explore how each layer builds on the next, compounding over time to shape who we become.Each week, we break down complex ideas and emerging trends into clear, actionable insights because growth isn't just about numbers, it's about understanding the world and our place in it.The information in this material is for general information only and is not intended to provide specific advice or recommendations for any individual.Investment advice offered through Integrated Partners, doing business as CoFi Advisors, LLC, a registered investment advisor.Integrated Partners does not provide legal, tax, mortgage advice or services.Please consult your legal tax advisor regarding your specific situation.Past performance is no guarantee of future results.All investing involves risk, including loss of principal.No strategy assures success or protects against loss.The economic forecasts set forth in this material may not develop as predicted, and there can be no guarantee that the strategies promoted will be successful.We have a special guest with us today.Yes.Tara Ryan.Tara, I'm gonna read you a bio and stare- Okay.at you while I do it.Perfect.Or Colin's gonna stare at you.I'm gonna be looking at the paper.Yeah.So, Tara Ryan is the co-founder and CEO of Confidant- Yes.an AI-driven platform supporting mothers as they navigate the invisible weight of modern motherhood, executive coach, and certified Fair Play facilitator, which I'd kind of like to talk a little bit about Fair Play today.Mm-hmm.Uh, she's dedicated thousands of hours to helping professionals overcome challenges such as parental leave, workplace bias, and various other career hurdles before founding her coaching practice, Infini-d-i?Infiniti.Tara spent more than a decade in the software and technology industry, where she honed the skills that fueled her entrepreneurial spirit and passion for empowering others to reach their full potential.So, Tara Ryan- How was that?It was great.Welcome to The Compound Growth Podcast.Yes.Thank you for having me.This is awesome.I'm so excited to be here.Well, we're excited to have you.Yes.So, we did a- Where should we start?Yeah.We've did a little research.Okay.Yep.obviously you're here 'cause you're the expert.It's your product.We wanna just kind of start a little bit about what is Confidant?What are you trying to achieve?Where are you?Where are you going?Just tell us a little bit about it.And, and why you created it.Yeah.The why is always good.Start with why.Okay.So, what we areI'll just start with the big vision, and then I'll go into the why.The big vision is mother-centered AI.So, I know we, y- there's some talk about, like, human-centered AI.It's very aligned with that- Mm-hmm.but really with the mom at the center.Mm-hmm.Um, and the why behind that is because I have spent, um, the last almost 5 years immersed in motherhood- Mm-hmm.um, both, uh, as becoming a mother myself and then also supporting a lot of moms who are in the paid workforce.Um, many of them in heavily male-dominated career spaces, navigating very demanding careers, um, leading sales teams, leading, um, finance teams, and juggling motherhood at the same time and how challenging that can be, especially, um, when they have leaders that maybe are not necessarily having to take on those same responsibilities.And so before I actua- when I started my coaching practice, I was not a mom.I was going through, actually, infertility, um, which my husband and I went through a 2yearplus journey, um, several rounds of IVF- Mm-hmm.and we had our beautiful daughter through IVF, and now we're pregnant again through IVF.So, love IVF.Um- Big fans of IVF.Big, big- Yeah, big fans.big, big fans, science, IVF, all the things.The science.This is not a sponsored- Yes.IVF episode- Yes.but we do love it.We do love it.Um, and so I, you know, I was hearing all these stories at first, but not experiencing them myself.And I got really, really curious around, like, "Why areWhy does it seem like there's so many barriers here?What are the big themes that are coming up that seem to be holding women back in the workfor- force?"Yeah.And one of the big ones was this gendered division of unpaid labor, uh, that they were taking on inside of the home.Mm-hmm.Mm-hmm.So, the domestic labor, the emotional labor.We can talk about all these 'cause we have language for the different types of labor now.Cognitive labor, um, and childcare responsibilities.And that was making it really, really hard for them to show up inside of their career in the way that they wanted to in order to like reach the goals that they wanted to.And then the other was just, you know, having leaders that didn't necessarily provide them with the support and flexibility that they needed.And so I was like, "Okay, I gotta get super curious about all of these things."And that's what led me to the Fairplay Method, which is actually a method that helps address the gender division of unpaid labor.And then, you know, fast-forward, I was like, "Hey"My clients kept coming to me and being like, "I wish you were always available to me."You know?LikeAnd they'd text me at all hours and I'm like, "Oh, my gosh.How can I be there for them and also be there for myself?"And notYou know.Yeah.Have th- have these boundaries in place.And AI was just starting to become more accessible.And a friend and IA friend of mine and I were like, "Well, what if we created a custom GPT?Like, what if we just kind of trained it with the best practices that you tend to use in your coaching and give it to them in between sessions and see what happens?"And I'm like, "Okay, let's do it.Let's try it."Um, and so we did.We gave it to them, and they were like, "This is amazing."Like, "How are you here in technology form?"Yeah.And I'm like, "I don't know, but we d-"You know?Like, "We did it."So, that was kind of the spark, um, using AI to help people make values-based decisions, using AI to help them advocate for themselves, um, and to learn about themselves.Can you walk our audience through what a GPT is?Yes, I can.So, um, one of them being ChatGPT, and you, all of us- Yeah.have the ability to go into ChatGPT and take a ver- the foundation of it and almost like clone it and then train it a very specific way to build a custom GPT.Cool.So, it's sitting on the, the large language model that exists today, like ChatGPT.It's sitting on that as the base.Yeah.But then you go in and it's actually very, um, friendly to non-technical people.There's a backend that you just kind of prompt it- Yeah.with how you want it to act and behave and show up for the people that access it.And for me, it was like coaching best practices, like values orientation, um, values-based decision-making, self-advocacy.Like, kind of put all of these things- Right.that I do with my clients in sessions.You can train it.You can fine-tune it with, like, specific scripts that you may want it to use.Um, load all of that in there, and then you give it to people to start using.And as they use it, it gets even stronger, actually, because then their data that they're feeding into it trains it, um- Right.to, toYeah, it's so interesting.That's so amazing.It's really amazing, yeah.So, it's a customized tool, um, but built on, you know, existing technology.Correct.So, you don't have to start from ground 0?Correct.And at the same time, it's still a learning tool because it's still AI, and it's stillSo, you get to have both a community kind of like connection to it, and then also your personal brand is a part of it.Because your clientele are telling the, the, the AI what they want to know, what they wanna talk about, what their concerns are, et cetera.And then you have your experience and knowledge base, and you can lean on that to address those concerns.That's really fascinating, and I'm gonna ask maybe a loaded question.How do you uh, handle the privacy aspect of that?So, that was one of the limitations.So, whenTha- that was kind of our prototype.Mm-hmm.We didI just thought it was gonna be a, tool for my clients, right?I'm like, "Okay, this is just an additional thing that you can leverage-" Yeah." so that I can kind of create the boundaries between us that are needed."Yes, I need boundaries.Right.Yeah.Right?Um, and then when they started reacting in the way that they did to it and sending me screenshots of the way that it was supporting themBecause another limitation of a custom GPT is you don't actually have access to the reporting and the data.Mm.So, you don't know how many times they're using it or what they're putting into it.That's all owned by OpenAI.Um, and so they would have to kind of actually send me screenshots of the- Okay.the interactions.And so I'm like, "Okay, this is really interesting, but it's very limited.Um, let me go out and do some customer development interviews and see where"I wanted to focus on moms.Um, where other moms are going to for support, like outside of my clients, you know?Mm-hmm.And so I spoke to 70 additional moms, um, and a lot of themBecause moms are stretched so thin, they have on average less than an hour to themselves a day.In an ideal world, they would be working with a coach or a therapist, um, on many of the topics that they want to talk through.They don't have access to it for a number of reasons, cost, time-Etcetera.They're turning to, like, Facebook groups- Yeah.and Reddit- Totally.threads.Yep.Um, and ChatGPT now.Um, and so I was like, "Okay, is that helpful?Do you like that?Is that where you want to go?"No.No, it's not helpful.Oftentimes, I feel more judged, attacked.Um, the- Oh, especially the- the moms groups on Facebook- Oh, my gosh.are just- Yeah.brutal.It's just brutal.Yeah.It is.And it's very biased, right?Yeah.Like, uh, they're givingPeople are giving advice.I don't think it's ill-intentioned, but they're giving advice rooted in their lived experience- Totally.not necessarily helpful advice for somebody else.And so- Yeah, if you come in, in a negative framework to those conversations, that's gonna bleed through.Totally.Mm-hmm.Yeah.Yeah.So that informed us to be like, "Okay, we're onto something.Let's go and take this Custom GPT to the next level."So we didn'tWe're not going to market with a Custom GPT.We actually, um, built our own custom LLM.Yeah.I- i- it isThe way that we've architected the backend of our app, the LLM, large language model, for those of you who don't know, there are a number of them, OpenAI is just one of them, um, it's interchangeable.Right now, we are usingOur baseline model is ChatGPT's 4.1 Mini model.We can switch that out.We've chosen that because the responses, we felt, are best, um, using that model today.But who knows?Like, we're always testing and changing- Yeah.and updating.And so to answer your security question, now that we own this, it's ours, um, there is end-to-end encryption.Mm-hmm.Um, all of our user data is anonymized, um, and it's a very safe and secure place for- Great.this information.Well- It's something that we think about a lot in finance is, like, just making sure that privacy, security- Security and privacy is everything.Yeah.And it's the same thing because I'm sure a lot of people are putting a lot of personal problems into this.Oh, totally.We, we actuallyYou know, we justWeSo our beta has been open for a month.Yeah.Oh, wow.Which is so exciting.I actually played around- Yes.with it last night.Di- did you?Oh my gosh.Yeah, it was very good.Okay.So- Yeah, I enjoyed it.it's, um- One of your data points is now calling.Yeah, that's true.That's awesome.It's great.Mr. Mom.Yeah.WeYes, we've had over 3,000, um, messages come through.Wow.Um, we have a 103 moms registered- Yep.uh, using it right now.And we are keeping the beta controlled.We're still inviting people in, but we wanna keep it controlled because we do wanna keep that human in the loop, right?Like- Yeah.we are learning so much about, um, the safety of AI.And there really are not a lot of regulations around it.And so monitoring it as a human being is very important, so that if some- if the AI performs in a way that we don't feel is safe or ethically aligned, we have to go in and build a, a safety- Mm-hmm.protocol, um, or a guardrail in real time.Something that I find absolutely fascinating about this is somethingLike, when you work with ChatGPT, you never exactly know what your output's going to be.And it's just basically gonna be a- an amalgamation of data that it farms online for the most part.But with your custom setup- Yeah.it's like you're building a person to respond with, like, a mission and vision and a set of morals and guidelines in a way.If you're kind of building a person- Yeah.there has to be some aspect of, like, personality in there.How do you engineer that in?Like, where do you start?Oh my gosh.It's, it's, it's actually like an art.It's moreSo it's so interesting because my background, right?My degree is in communication and English.Right.And I've actually found that thatIn the world of, like, prompt engineering, that is so helpful.Yeah.Because- Huh.youLinguistics are everything, right?Like, you actually ha-The more detailed you can get around explaining and expressing how you want this bot- Right.to show up, the better.So it's a lot of testing.It's a lot of, like- Wow.um, you know, "You are a very thoughtful, um, coach and friend."Li- like, it's going into all of the ways in which you want it to show up.And then we actually, my co-founder and I, lean on AI to help us with the AI- Right, of course.Yeah.so much.Um, my co-founder, I cannot take any of the credit.Arielle, she's incredible.She actually taught herself Cursor, which is a no-code, um, app-building tool.And built our entire front end- Yeah.of our app using Cursor.Yeah.We are non-technical.Is she also a mom?Um, she is not a mom.She's an aspiring mom.An aspiring mom.Um, but yeah.I, I, I think i- it's just remarkable what you can do.UmYeah.It's, it'sLike, for me, being in that situation, like if we were to build a financial advisory- Here it comes.Yeah.No, no.Uh, well, we shouldn't do that yet, just yet.But-anyway, like if we were to build one, I would think to myself, "Well, what qualities would we want to have in that AI response?And then how do we even communicate those to the prompt, so that way it stays that way?"And I just see that as being, like, a huge task, and that's impressive that you've done it.Yeah.It'sAnd it's, itI mean, it'sWe've, we've done V1, V1, VLike, like, it, it's soThere's so much work to be done, right?Yeah.Because it's also what I'mWhat we're learning is the more specific, the more niche you can be, the better, because the AI, uh, uh, it's easier to diri- direct it, right?Sure.Like, it's likeSo ha- have you heard of RAG?Nope.Okay.My daughter probably has.Okay.What is, what is RAG?Tori, do you know what that is?So, so- No, Tori doesn't know either.So RAG is a huge component of what we have built.Um, and so that is the, the backend piece that is theAllows you to, uh, um, upload the proprietary stuff.So you have- Okay.to build out these datasets, these knowledge bases, that the AI is pinging in order to- Right.surface- Yeah.your specific stuff.Right?So it's kind of like a Venn diagram- So-in a way?There's 2, like, major components that we are leveraging in our app.One is the system prompt, and that's kind of the, the rules.It's like, okay, this is how the AI always has to show up.It's gotta be this is the tone, this isThese are the values, these are the safety protocols.Like, that's always present.ThatAnd that's kind of like when you, when you get trained as a, as a therapist, for example.Like, that's the same type of thing.It's, it's learning how to do the job, right?And how to best show up for the job.And I guess, theoretically, always showing up consistently the best version of itself, which is pretty cool.'Cause it's hard- Yes.like on a everyday basis to be like the best version of- Yep.me as an advisor, or me as a dad, or me as whatever, you know?Yeah.When you're a human, you're gonna have your own emotions- Yeah.and that might not be super helpful for the person sitting across from you.Yeah.Totally.And one small tweak in the system prompt can make such a difference in how it responds.Interesting.It's wild.So then you have to go through all that testing- Yeah.'cause you can only make one change at a time to see how it impacts everything.The other component is this RAG piece, which is the, the proprietaryIt's like you'reIn the AI world, people will ask you, like, "Well, what's your moat?"Right?Like, "What's your differentiator between you and ChatGPT?Why wouldn't people just go to ChatGPT for this?"Well, our moat is we're mother-centered AI, so our RAG is going to be mother-centered data, statistics, real-life experiences, um, best practices, things that moms care about, right?And we're seeing that the majority of our users, 60% of our users, are chatting in around topics like the mental load, boundaries, and partner relation-like relationships.The fair play type stuff.Yeah, the fair play type stuff.Yeah, yeah.Yeah, yeah.Got it.Um, and so that's where I'm saying, like, we willUh, what we, I think, are going to try to do is based off of the data that we're getting, build out a really, really sophisticated RAG around those topics.So you could come in and chat about anything, right?But we're really gonna be the experts at first in those spaces, so that if youBut then you've got to outline all these hypothetical situations- Sure.and how you would want it to ideally respond.Yeah.It's it's wild.Whoa.But it, but it wouldIt must, like, re- you know, kind of feed upon itself, and just like repeat- It learns.Yeah, exactly.So likeAnd it's notIt doesn't sound to me like if you, if one of your users, you know, takes a picture of a plant they should go and try to put that into your AI.Or if they are, like, trying to think of good birthday gifts or whatever.It's, it's maybe more focused onto maybe the mental health aspect of it, or just like the- Support.Yeah.It's support.It's, it's, it's a helping tool, right?Correct.And that's where marketing comes into play.Yeah.Right?So it's like guiding people around why you would turn to Confidant versus ChatGPT or Google or a friend.Right.Right.Um, and for us, it's really like we've decided we want to be the values-based decision helper, um, the advocacy helper, um, uh, boundary helper, um, validator of how hard motherhood is.We also want to be a place where we gentlysurface, systemic barriers that are at play that are oftentimes limiting women and mothers that we internalize as our own problem, um, so that moms feel less isolated and alone.UmYeah.So, that's, like, our goal.Yeah.I seeAs this is getting built out and you're having more and more data coming in, like, the amount of information that you're going to have to perfect this product, because it's constantly being used in theory- Mm-hmm.is a lot to comb through in terms of data.But, I mean, imagine the ability to fine-tune this more because it's technically kinda live and always evolving.That's amazing.Yes.And, and we have to, we, we want to also, um, give our users agency, right?So, we have told them that in the beta, um, you're opting in to us learning from you- Mm-hmm.and learning from your data.I don't know that that will always be true, right?Like, we don't know that moms will always want their data to be fine-tuning our model, and that's okay.Right.Yeah.Right?We've also been toldYou know, we were talking to some investors and investors have been like, "Well, you're going to be sitting on this goldmine- Yes."Please, sell your data please."Yeah.And, and women, you know, are the, number one spenders in their household.Like, how are you gonna e-"And we're like, "We're not."Yeah.Like, that's not something that we are going to sell.Um, you know, I do see a world in which we allow moms to opt in to using their data to influence policy change- Mm-hmm.or healthcare decisions.Um, research data around women's health, but not to target them to buy a stroller.Yeah.Which, which, which- You know?stroller should they buy?Yeah.Exactly.Yeah.That's not helpful.And that'sI think that would disrupt your brand-if that was the case.Totally.Yeah.Look, trust is everything.Especially, like, as it comesI mean, you need to be able to trust AI.Jess, Jess and I have been talking about this a lot the last few days 'cause we were looking up trick-or-treating things- Yeah.in Portsmouth.We were like, "What day is trick-or-treating on Portsmouth this year?"Because our daughter has friends, like, all around the seacoast, and they can go to Portsmouth and trick-or-treat there.And Portsmouth usually does trick-or-treating not on Halloween.Okay.Um, but, so I looked it up and it said, you know, "Portsmouth is going to have trick-or-treating on Wednesday, October 31st."This is the Google map.Yeah.And I guess that's Gemini answer.Yeah.Gemini, yeah.Right?And I look at it, I'm like, "But Wednesday isn't October 31st."Friday is October 31st.How does Google AI not know what the calendar is?And it seems like it's such a small little thing, but it's an error and a small thing, that means there's errors everywhere.Anywhere.Right?So, how do you, how do you navigate that?Like, how do, how do I navigate that just as a user?How do you navigate that as a CEO of a, you know, chat AI company?Yeah.It's really, it's really hard because so much of it is just, um, a- aware, making people aware that, like, you can't trust the AI as truth, right?Like, yes.A- and choosing w- why, when and where you encourage people to come to your AI, right?Like, if I, if I was talking to someone and I wasAnd they were wanting that Halloween data, I would never say, "Go to Confluence."Yeah.That's, that's not what we're doing here.I mean, like, that's not the space- Well, you can't even go to Google either, soRight.ILike, that's not the space to do this.I understandAnd maybe in a wor- like, a future world, w- we will be, because I really do want it to be the space that solves all moms' questions and challenges eventually.Moms wanting to know when trick-or-treating is.Right, yeah!Yeah.Like, parents in general.I see it, like, expanding to e- everyone.Um, but I think it's, it's, it's hard because there's also not a lot of regulations in place- Mm-hmm.a- around AI.And, um, I think everybody's having toEverybody's building and trying to solve these things in tandem.And so, that's why that human in the loop piece is so interes- like, important.Yeah.And Ariel and I are combing through all the different questions asked and being like, "Okay, how do weIf something comes in that isfeels unsafe to us or feels unethical, how do we, in the moment, address this either in our RAG or in our systems prompt so that, um, it is better next time?"And it's not perfect.I g- I mean, uh, I, I have to hold ourselves accountable.We're learning every single day.But what I can say is that we are prioritizing safety and security and ethics, um, whereas some c- And I'm not trying to throw people under the bus, but like, a lotBeing in this AI world, it's like scale and profitability - Yeah.are like, "Let's go."And, you know, we have to, we're, we're, like I said, we're having conversations with investors and they're like, you know, "Wha- what's your week-over-week growth?What's your week-over-week growth?"And we're like, "Look.We, we are not focusing on that right now because we have to have a human in the loop for this."Yeah.So yes, of course we want this, our community to grow.We want, uh, more people to be able to access this, but we want it to be safe first and foremost.And we can't do that if we have X reasons.Yeah, for sure.Kaylee and I, when ChatGPT started to get a lot of traction last year, I'll say, obviously it was big before that- Yeah.but I'd say last year is when it really kinda blew up, um, when we first started using it, you know, Kaylee was like, "This thing sucks."You know, "The outputs are terrible.""And blah, blah, blah, blah, blah."And then we sat with an AI coach.Mm-hmm.And the AI coach was like, "Well, you have to frame out your question-" Yes, yeah." because your output is only gonna be as good as your input."Yes.So he was like, "Frame it out in a way where you give it context, you assign it a role-" Yep." you have it ask you questions, and then you w- do the task-" Yep." for what you want it to be."And the moment we started doing that, it started to give us better outputs.However, if I was going to come to it for something that I really needed or some sort of, like any of the issues that you're addressing, I wouldn't know the role to assign it.Totally.And I couldn't think through what traits I would want it to respond to me with to make it feel effective.And me being in an emotional state, going to ChatGPT, is probably not the best time to be building out that framework.That's a good point.Totally.I could absolutely see a case where there is Confidant and a bunch of other, I'll say, AI GPTs- Something for dinner reservations.Yeah.For a dinner reservation or for someone that's struggling with workplace problems- Res U A L.or that's struggling with mental health, or that's struggling with whatever it might be.And, um, travel plans.Like, whatever.And as a normal user, you don't wanna be the person that's programming that because you don't know what you don't know.Exactly.It's- You want an expert to program that.Travel is a perfect example of that.Yeah.Like, I, I don't know everything about Greece.No.Right.I don't know anything about Greece, honestly.Yeah.Right.It's, it's so tru- And having different agents, I- Yep.guess you would, you know, like bots in there that are super niche and focused is a great strategy for that.Absolutely.So it's like different bots engaging with each other on the back end to figure out, "Oh, which one is best suited for this a- this input-" Task." task?"Yeah.Yeah.Yeah.Um, and so we're actually, we're having conversations with other large motherhood communities and spaces and researchers to figure out like, how do we structure that, right?Like, how do we incorporate things like Fairplay into Confidant so that if somebody comes in and is looking to understand it, um, it would respond properly?If they're looking to introduce it to their family, it would respond po- properly, right?It's, yeah, it's, it's so fascinating and so cool, but you're exactly right.I think that's the way that it'll all be structured.There'll be like these behind the scenes, like worker bots that are figuring out like, "How do I respond best to this?"Yeah, yeah.Can weSo let's, just moving aside from like the functionality and, and the, the technos- technological side of it- Yeah.and let's talk about the clients- Yeah.right?The customer base.Because I think what's, what's really interestingSo I, I grew up with a s- a, a mom who was a single mom, right?Working teacher.Obviously, a massive load for her to take care of these 2 boys- Yeah.and also have her job.And I, I feel like my awareness of that as a kidAnd again, I think partially when you're a kid, you're not supposed to be too aware.There's thi- I was t- I told my daughter the other day, I'm like, "Look.You didn't think about what I wanted at all today and that's fine."Like, "You're 11."It's- Right.you know?Um, be selfish.But I think that my awareness is reflective of kinda society's awareness.I feel like we've really come a long way from the '80s and '90s when I was a kid to understanding what being a working mom is like.And it's not just when you're a single mom, it's also like when you have a supportive partner.Totally.Like I've, I'veThere have been days where I've like patting myself on the back for my contributions as a dad, and I have like skimmed the surface of what Jess is doing that day.And I think that sometimes the, the man in the relationship, in a traditional family relationship- Yep.might feel like, you know, they're being supportive or they'reYou know, they could be supportive and at the same time not really be aware of everything.The all the variables, all the different areas where women as moms in the workforce, or moms that are staying at home, just there's so much responsibility that I don't wanna say naturally falls on them, but just like instinctively falls on them.It just falls on them.And it's, it's really hard to explain that to people, and I feel like what you're doing is creating a, a space where there's other people who understand that, and hopefully are removing like bias and judgment and shame, and all these things.Oh my gosh.I'm so glad you brought this up because I was actually at an event last night in Boston, um, where I heard, uh, this incredible author, Allison Daminger.She's a researcher.Um, she researches cognitive labor.Okay, yeah.And, um-She wasWe talked, the whole discussion was all about this and just how exactly like so many men, I believe, in my opinion, want to do more, want to understand more, want to take on more, but they don't get it.Like, they don't really realize all that moms are holding.And so, I am so excited by the fact that people are, like, researching this topic.And so what-what we dove into last night is the different types of labor.And so what you-what you were describing is, like, that instinct, right?Is like, a lot of that is the mental stuff.Yeah.It's like, "Are we out of toilet paper?Do we have enough ketchup?When do we need to sign up for camp?"Uh, like, all the things that are constantly rolling through a-a person's mind.And when it comes to the household and the family, oftentimes that falls on mom.Um, and so Alison, in her research, she talked to a bunch of couples.Um, she talked to heterosexual couples, she talked to same-sex couples to understand, like, what is the distribution of that cognitive labor?Why is it the way that it is?Does it differentiate between, um, you know, different types of people?Where they live, their, uh, economic status- Yeah.all of these different things.Yeah.And, um, what she found was that in heterosexual couples, like, the-the majority of the mental labor, the cognitive labor, did fall on mom and a lot of those societal expectations were at play, right?Like, a lot of times- Yeah.the- the- the mom, the dad and the mom would just say: oh, well she's better at that, right?Right, naturally.I- I literally gravitate towards that.Yeah.She could handle these things.You know, she's just so good at it, right?Like, she's like the project manager and that.Like, she's so good.And then, and-and Alison would be like, "Okay, that's-that's interesting.Thank you."Like, "So what do you do for, what do you do for your paid work?"Right?Mm-hmm.Like, and even in situations where the men were project managers themselves or surgeons themselves- Right.where that mental cognitive labor was critical in their paid work, they couldn't make the connection that they, like, could do that inside of their households too.Yeah.And so she pressed thatYou know, she kind of- Right.pressed and was like, "But I think it's society," right?Like, it's like we've really assigned a lot of these gendered roles and responsibilities and tasks- Norms, yeah.and norms to-to women.And so, to your point, I think it's having these conversations, exposing this research- Yeah.exposing the new language, um, to understand that there are all of these different types of labor.And, like, every task that we all accomplish has 3 components: the conception, the planning, and the execution.We only talk about the execution piece.Mm-hmm.There's so much- Yeah.that goes on in the conception and the planning piece.I can say , I am not a dad yet.But, uh, Kaley is quite keen to have me become a dad.But you also are interested?I am, I am very interested as well.Yes.I'm excited about it.I can tell.You're, you're- Yeah, yeah, yeah.I'm- I'm excited.Yeah.So, um, with that being said though, Kaley always says that she's really excited about motherhood.And I always say, "That's great and I want that for you."But for me, I don't know what that means to her.And I don't know what motherhood means.To me, it's like, oh, well, you wanna have a baby and take care of a baby.And, as a man, I feel naive to the fact that I don't know necessarily what's going to happen and I'm like, oh, well, you have your own instincts.Yes.You just know what to do.And we're-wwe're gonna figure this out.Like, I don't know what to do with a baby.Right.And you just will have to tell me what I'm, what I need to do.Oh, my God.And, to me, you know, I will do my best to read books and research and things like that.But I don't feel like, as a man coming into this, like I'm necessarily prepared to know what she's gonna be going through- Yep.in this role.Mm-hmm.And you are the type of guy, you will research.Like, you will, like, learn- Oh, I- Like, just like he was learn- using the- Totally.the app last night.Like, he will put that time in.I'm a very curious person.Yeah, yeah.Curiosity is very important.But I- I think even you just saying that is huge.Yes.Mm-hmm.Right?Like, that's- that- so- that's amazing, right?I think- I wish that there were more safe spaces for men to feel like they could say what you just said, right?Mm-hmm.Like, because then your energy tells me that you are like, "I am- my default is going to be to lean on her instinct," right?But you're not telling me that you're closed to that being the only solution.Like, if I were to come in and say, "Okay.Well, what if you and your wife had a conversation, a deep conversation-" Yeah." around how she does visualize motherhood, what she does expect out of a partner in motherhood-" Yeah." um, and you really had a conversation around your values and the shared vision for what it meant during pregnancy, during trying to conceive-" Right." during- after giving birth.What did that mean from a paid leave standpoint?What did that mean from a distributing the labor standpoint?"That's the world I- that is my dream world, that- Communication, where people are, like, just talking about these things.We are talking about those things.And my journey through infertility, while it was so challenging in so many ways, I will always say it was one of the greatest gifts that my partner and I could have been given, because we got the opportunity to have all of those conversations.Yeah.We would make a fire out in the backyard.We'd light the Solo Stove, and we'd go out, and we'd talk about our values and what we wanted to- how we wanted to show up as parents, how we wanted to show up as partners, how his childhood shaped the way he thought about what being a dad meant and looked like.Same with me.We got to debate that a little bit, right?Like, and we wouldn't- I think we would have fallen into a lot of the traditional gender norms had we not struggled through infertility and had been given the gift to talk through that stuff.Yeah.Yeah.I could see a spaceI know Confidant is for mothers and women.And I could also-see a space too where I would use it- Oh, yes.coming into, you know, my wife becoming pregnant.And- Well, especially if it's, like- You know.geared for that.Totally.Like, and if it was geared for dads- Or you have new dads.because I would love- Oh my gosh.to have those conversations and know how to approach them, so I can be a better partner myself.Yes.Can we also s- I- so I think what's really interesting about this- this idea, the dads' side of the idea- Yes.is, first of all, Solo Stoves are awesome.I love Solo Stoves.I love Solo Stoves.I love Solo Stoves.They're so good.They're so great.I love that they're called a Solo Stove.I know.Like, why not?We- we cooked hot dogs over ours recently.It was really- it was really nice.Oh, that's awesome.Oh, that's lovely.Um, anyways, um, I think dads don't often talk about being dads.And moms regularly talk about what it's like to be a mom.All the time.And it's really interesting watching the social dynamics.We- we were always told that with- you know, our friends in- when we're parents would be other parents, right?And it's like- Mm-hmm.that's how you find friends as an adult- Right.or in this new stage of your life.When you become a parent, like, you have different friends.And what I found interesting is that that was true for Jess.Yeah.The moms got each others' numbers, and they would organize things.And- and Jess or I would sometimes insert me into that.Yes.And then I would be taken out the next time that they're organizing- Yeah.something.They'll be like, they'll include me, and then the next time the- the girls want to play together, like the moms are there, and they're not including me again.Yes.And I don't know or necessarily get along with the dads.Yeah.Like, it's- and I don't think all the moms just get along.Yeah.But it's like some sort of just gravitational pull to what they do.And I'm really curious about- you- you brought up the- the author and the research she was doing.And you said, you know, same-sex marriage and- and traditional marriages.What- what- how does the delineation of responsibility break down in a same-sex relationship?Is there any different?Yeah, it's so- it's so- uh, I'll address that, and then I want to address the dad invitation thing too.Sorry, I ramble.No, no, no, I- so this- the same-sex, um, marriage data is really interesting, because she said that there is still an unequal distribution of labor often, um, but the gap is much smaller.Yeah.So typically, like 60/40.Mm-hmm.That's a big difference, um, whereas with- i- in heterosexual, um, relationships, it's often like 80/20, um, or more.Um, and then also in same-sex couples, um, they are aware of the differences, and they've actually had pro- act- like she- in her research, they had talked about it.Right, okay.Yeah.And they had said, like, "Yeah, this is just the dynamic.This is how it is.""Like, it feels fair.Um, if we feel differently down the road, we'll make adjustments."Whereas for the- the men and women she was talking to, they were, like, very surprised-to learn that it was so unequal.It was like, "Oh, wow, she actually is carrying, like, so much more of this than I realized."And then in the same-sex couples too, the distribution of labor was not as gendered.So it was like, because 2 men, 2 women, all the stuff has to get done, right?It wasn't like, oh, you know, he does the trash andRight?Like, there are gendered chores.Trash guy, yeah.There are gendered tra- tasks.TheyIt was just, you know, they did what they did.The, the distribution was more based off of, like, their skills or their desires, right?Mm-hmm.Um, so those were the key differences.She did also talk aboutLast night, we talked about this e- very concept that you were just describing, about how, women h- do have so many of these spaces to go into, and when, uh, daycare calls, right?Like, you'd g- have to pick your kid up.They default to Mom.Yeah.And even when you put Mom and Dad on the form, they default to Mom.And the, the research shows that it's because Mom picks up, right?Like, so the, the, the careLike, people have actually pressed on the daycare administrators or teachers and been like, "Look, they're telling you, like, they're asking you to make this more equal and fair."And they're like, "Well, look, ourWe don't have time for that," right?Yeah.Like, "We've got to call the parent that's gonna be the reliable one that's gonna pick up."Right.So, it's just this, like, conundrum.Um, and, and then dads get removed from it.I thinkI don't have an answer.Um, I think, I, IIn an ideal world, more dads will step up and create these safe spaces for other dads.We need more of that.Um, and there will be more dad communities that men can lean on.Yeah.Um, but I think it's having conversations like this, it's raising awareness to it.It's continuing to you back in.Yeah, right.Yeah.You know?It's, it sucks.It's like, it's not- Please include me in the group text.Yes .Yeah.It's not a- Do you not like me anymore ?It's notBut then asLast night, I was thinking about it, and this is complicated, butAnd I don't even know if we wanna go there.But, like, sometimes it doesn't feel safe to invite a man into a space.ItNo, itYou have to- Yeah.I get that.You have to go there.It's- Yeah.And, um- And it's, it's tough to understand.Jess and I had a long conversation about that one time on our, one of our anniversary getaways actually, which kinda dampened- Yeah .the afternoon um- Get it out now before your dinner .But it was like, you know, I've been in situations where I'veIf there was likeYou know, if there's a store, and I walk in, and the only person at a store is another customer who's a woman, and IYou can feel the air change sometimes- Yeah.Totally.because she is, like, concerned.Guarded, yeah.Right?She's guarded.Yeah.And, like, you canI think it's easy to understand where that's coming from for her.It's a second derivative or next-level understanding to understand how that impacts the man- Yeah.in that situation.And it'sI don't wanna be like, "Oh, poor me."You know, I, you know, I understand white guy in America, privileged, et cetera.But there have been places where I've felt, like, othered or just, like, not safe.And I was actually at one with you- Yeah.at the, um, the We Can Do Hard Things podcast thing.Right, yes, yes.Mm-hmm.We weren't sitting together- Yes.um, but I, I noticed.There was, uh, there was somebody who spoke.They took, uh, interviews or questions from the audience.And there was a woman who shared about her experience, uh, in a same-sex marriage, raising a little boy- Yeah.and how she didn't know how to do it, and, like, eh, she had this relationship with men where she really distrusted men.Yeah.She justHonestly, I think she said she doesn't like men- Yeah.and yet, she's raising a boy.Right.And so, it's a really hard thing to navigate, but it's a reminder that there are people who just, like, would look at me and say, "I don't like you because you're a man."Right.And, and that's, like, the inverse of what we talk about a lot.Yeah, I mean, Kayley and I have talked about this before.Um, I've never walked down the street and felt as if I needed to look behind me- Right.Right, yeah.ever in my life.You should go to Mexico.I have neverSpend some more time in Mexico .Yeah, I haven't traveled to many third-world places.But, um, with that being said, I have never felt threatened in any way, shape, or form.Yeah.And I can appreciate how that's just a totally different level of thinking- Yep.that I've never had to address in my life.Yep.You know?Well, talk about, like, now we have language for it, right?Yeah.That's a mental load that we as women have to carry from birth that you don't.And that's just reality.Is it from birth?Or when does it start?Like, is that the wayI don't think that's the way my daughter feels right now.Yeah.I don'tI can'tSo, I actually gave a presentation recently, um, around the first time that I ever felt like my gender limited me.Mm.And it was w- I, I think I can recall being 7.Um- Wow.And IBut I played hockey.Mm.And so, I played with the boys.I forgot aboutcouldn't be in the locker room with them until the very, very end, which, you know, appropriate, but like, Iit wasnobody talked to me about why.Right.Nobody, like, explained why I was being treated- Yeah.differently.And my skills were equal to them, you know?Like, I could keep up with them.I played just as well as them.LikeAnd so, I didn't get it.Um- And then you miss out on the locker room experience.AndYeah.And you just, likeAnd I was just treated differently by the coaches and the players.And- Yeah.I can remember that, and that carried with me.Um, and I wish that I had been communicated with around that more.Um, but that's, like, my earliest memory of my gender, like, limiting me.Wow.And so, I don't know.I think it's probably different for, for everyone.Um- But, you know, we, we talk aboutIn this podcast, we've talked about systemic issues with either just ourthe financial industry- Yeah.or the economy, or the society, et cetera.You know, you're talking about some that, like, the, the school is a perfect example.We don't have time to think about fair play and, like- Yeah.you know, what to do here.WeSo there's, like, these systemic limitations, and you can't tear it all down.No.It's just, you know- No, you can't.So, how do you solveI think the only thing you can do is what you've already said.It just reallyIt's communicate, right?Yeah.Just make sure you communicate and, and create awareness, and spread awareness, and create opportunity for awareness and communication over and over and over again.Yeah.Can you also speak through what fair play is?Yeah.See- Yes, yes.Yeah, yeah.we gotta talk about the fair play thing.I'll talk about that.Uh, let me just p- add to this.I really do think that AI can play a role in this.Okay.Yeah.So, that is why we are leaning into AI, because I think if built right, it can help us better understand ourselves, right?Like, if you learn something, like say, for example, you s- one of your listeners is like, "Oh, this cognitive labor thing, like, what is this?"You know?"I heard it on this podcast.I'm gonna go do some research."And they can lean on AI to learn more about the cognitive- Right.load.Then they could reflect with AI.It's like a thought partner to be like, "Okay.How much of the cognitive load am I carrying?How much is my partner carrying?"And use it as, like, a reflection tool or a thought partner to explore these things.I really see it helping us to then better understand, so that we're better equipped to go and connect with other people.One of the things people are asking for inside of Confidant are scripts.That's, like, the number one thing that is requested is like- I could see that being huge.how do I go have this conversation, this tough conversation with my boss?Okay.Yeah, yeah.How do I go have this toughHelp me.They, like, prompt out what they, the ideal outcome is.Yeah.Now, how do I- Yep.go communicate that to the person that I want to get this ideal outcome from?Mm-hmm.And so, I see that as, like, beautiful, actually, because it's deepening our human connection versus how I feel technology has torn us apart from each other in the past, but only if it's built in this, like, human-centric way.Um- Well, you're the second person to sit in that seat and say that.Mm-hmm.And Andre said the same thing.Andre said the same thing.Wow.Yeah.And, um, and she, you know, she uti- utilizes AI for, like, a pause to like- Yeah.just say, "Hey, I'mI need to think and reflect, and think about how I wanna approach these things."And then it he- leads to a deeper conversation.Yes.Um, I think that's really interesting that that perspective has been presented to us twice.And I'm, like, often on the other side of this, thinking about how AI is going to impact financially a lot of people, right?So, it's- Yeah.Productivity, right?Yeah, yeah.Like, it's a productivity tool.Yeah.And it is.And that's great, but it can also be a human reflection tool, I think.A learning tool.A thought partner.Um, and that's where itLike, because there are studies around how it's kind of eroding the brain and not actually helping us be more, productive, right?Like, it's tak- Well, everything's bad for you.Yeah.And so, if you pair it, though, with thought leadership, then it actually strengthens the brain activity.Um- Yeah, I mean, I was just gonna say, we have constant conversations about screen time in our house.And just, like, getting off the phones, going for a walk, spending time together, playing a board game, whatever it is.And I think a lot of people are fearful of the fact that technology could have personality.Yeah.Mm-hmm.You know?A lot of people are afraid of that.However-With that being said, depending on the personality and it being a thought leader- Yeah.that could be incredibly useful and incredibly helpful as well.Yeah.I know if I had someone or a technology in my pocket 24/7 that could help me get through a lot of mental loads and stress, whether it's in our business, or job- Yeah.relationships, like, that would be a huge win.Yep.You know?S- I- Versus just Googling stuff.Totally.Tri- so I use the voice memo feature in- Mm-hmm.ChatGPT all the time.Every dog walk.Oh, yeah.I'm, I'm downloading my thoughts, my, um, like what Ivisions for the company, like, "How do I think about this?"And then it prompts you to, like, answer another question and go deeper.And it'sIt really is.It can be a real helpful, like, thought partner.Yeah.It is.Um, but- That's the best case for it, I think- Yeah.is the thought partner aspect of it.Absolutely.And think about the level of advice that you could potentially receive.Because if you're the best in your field and not everybody has the time to access you all the time- Yes.Right.being able to access that all the time, and if you don't have the financial resources- Yep.to be able to do that, now you do.There are CEOs.There's a whole business, I'm forgetting the name of it, uh, that is cloning CEOs essentially to- Yeah.Mm-hmm.share their expertise- Sure.Yeah.and knowledge.And they're paying big bucks to have these companies do this.Yeah.But, like, then they're giving their employees access to their GPT.We know one of those companies as well.Okay.Yeah.I'm like, "Oh my gosh."It's wild.Yeah.But did you want me to- Yeah.eh, t- go into Fair Play really quick so I know- Yes, go into Fair Play.Oh, yeah.Um, so theIt started as a book.It's a bestsell- New York Times bestselling book by Eve Rodsky is the author.Um, and it really blew up because Reese Witherspoon put it on her- That's right.Yeah.Mm-hmm.um, book club picks.Love her.Yeah.Yeah.She's awesome.And, um, itThe book is written from a female perspective.So, it's all around Eve's experience, um, after having her second child and realizing the, uh, unequal distribution of unpaid labor inside of herand childcare responsibilities inside of her home.And then seeing that it wasn't just playing out in her life, but also playing out in the lives of, like, pretty much everyone that she knew, even though they were dual career, dual income, um, family.And so she's like, "How do I do th- Like, w- how d- Like, we haveWe all go to work in these spaces where there are very clearly defined roles, responsibilities, and expectations, and yet in our households, none of that exists."Mm-hmm.Right?Like it's just a free-for-all.And I can remember, like, our early conversations, my husband and I, right, around, like, when I started pressing for us to have some of these convos before childhaving oura child.He was like, "But we're so good.Like, we'll just figure it out."And I'm like, "Yes.""I, I wish, I wish we lived in a world where we didn't have so many of these societal expectations and pressures and we could just figure it out, and we would be okay, and we wouldn't fall into some of these norms."But like the reality is, like, we will.You know?Even the best-intentioned- Yeah.will.And so, the book actually is a, a method and a system to more fairly divide household chores and tasks.Yes.And not equally.Yeah.Right?It's like, it, it's not called Equal Play.It's called Fair Play because you define what fair looks like for you.So it takes 100 of the most common tasks, um, and divides them into these cards.It's a card deck.And then you, you distribute the card deck.Um- We have these cards- Yeah.at home from, I think it was the HER Conference that, yeah.Yes.Yeah.It can feel overwhelming.And so as a facilitator, um, you know, oftentimes my advice to people who are just exploring it, 1, is to first watch the documentary.I think that'sIt's on Hulu and Apple.Um, that's the best introduction I think.um, because it follows 4 different couples pre-Fair Play and post-Fair Play, and th- how the energy shifts inside of their family.Mm-hmm.Um, and then I say, like, "Pick one card," right?Like, p- just if, if there's a really unfair distribution of labor inside of your home, just start with one and see how it goes.And essentially, the method saysWhat I touched on earlier is that every task that we accomplish has those 3 components.And so if you are a Fair Play family, if you own trash, let's say, for example, you own every component of trash.So, you are remembering trash day, you are remembering to buy trash bags, you are remembering the conception, the planning, and the execution of it all- Mm-hmm.so that your partner, um, can truly be freed of that task- Can we-can we talk about trash real quick?I just- Yes.This is important.Kaylee just took over trash in our household.Did she?She did.Okay.Why did Kaylee take over the trash?She's up much earlier than I am- Okay.typically, and she doesn't want to make the bed anymore.So- So you have the bed and- So I s- Okay.I took bed.Yeah.So I typically take out the trash, butAnd this is, I think this is where the Fair Play stuff comes in.So I most l- mostly- Yeah.not entirely, but the majority of it, I take on that ownership.But I have different thresholds for when the- Mm-hmm.trash needs to be taken out, right?So- Like 5 minutes before it shows up.No .. No, and it's not just, like, taking the trash out to the curb.Okay.It's like taking the trash from the kitchen to the trash bin- Yep.before it goes, and- And then, there's all the little trash bags around the house, right?In all the trash bags in the house.All in the rooms?Right, yeah.And so, you know, the other, the other day, uh, Jess, Jess was away for the weekend and I was like, "Well, I'm gonna make the house nice and clean for when she comes home," and I went around to all the little trash things and emptied it out, and I'm like, "Oh, that's what this is."Um, but when Jess comes home and she, like, opens the trash, she'll have an opinion on whether the trash should go out.And IIt might be different from mine.Yep.But it's like, it's on me to do it, or she will just, like, take it out and, like, then I have to do it.So it's j- there's noThere's communication.Yes.But there'sWhen you have partners, whether you're married or not, like, you have partners, they have different feelings about how things should be done.So- 1000%.is it that whoever cares the most should take on that responsi-How do, how do you navigate that?So I love, I love this.So one of the key pieces, of course, this came up in the research and the data as she was building this- Yeah.method.She has, um, addressed it as establishing a minimum standard of care.Okay.Mm-hmm.And so every taskSo part of the, the, the Solo Stove conversations that Nick and I had were establishing the minimum standard of care for each one of the tasks.Mm-hmm.And if somebody in the partnership, um, feels very, very strongly about a mini- like, a minimum standard of care and the other person can't get behind it, there's kinda 2 options.Um, 1, you talk it out until you can get to a, an agreement, um, around it.The other is that they just own it.TheySo if, if somebody is like, "Look, like, I can't give up control of it being this way," then they would own the full CPE, conception, planning, and execution of that task.Yeah, okay.Um, yeah.That's kinda how itBut that, but that's what comes up all the time, and that's where the defaultYou know, i- uh, I'm not trying to throw men under the bus or anything here, but that is where, like, women end up being like, "Well, he just can't meet the way that I need this to be done, so I'll just do it."And- Yeah.Yeah, and it's, it's for sure.And- Parental leave and- Or I don't do it as good as my wife does- Yep.so she'll just do it.Yeah ."Just do it."Yeah.Instead of having- She's better at this .She's better at this than me.Right, right, yeah.I'm not good at doing dishes.And, and I think there's- Yeah, right .No, I'm great at doing dishes.. I, I like doing dishes.In our, in our interpersonal office dynamic, he's the dishes guy.I j- I just did the dishes- .before you came in this morning, actually.. But it's like there's, there's so muchTh- it's so loaded.Yeah.Right?And so that's the other thing with Fair Play.Like, s- 0 oftentimes as a facilitator, right, like, you have people coming to you, um, wanting Fair Play to solve marriage problems.Right.And oftentimes, like, actually, it's just gonna expose that there's deeper problems- Yeah.that need to be addressed before- Sure.this would even be helpful.Um, and so, many of the Fair Play certified facilitators are therapists, um, couples therapists, so you would do a lot of work with them before you even thought about implementing Fair Play.Yeah.Yeah.I- in, in our lives and careers, we always talk about setting goals and expectations with our clients in setting up the- Yeah.financial planning process.What I find useful about Fair Play is it's really going to help you identify what your goals are.Totally.Because I, I mean, the classic saying, "If you don't have a plan, plan to fail."Right.And without setting that up and setting up a framework, you're inevitably going to be creating conflict.Yep.And we realized too, we were doing a lot of tasks that, like, we didn't need to be doing.Yeah.So like, when you spread it out- Mm-hmm.we're like, "Ugh, we don't even need to be doing this stuff," right?Like, "we can throw this card out-" Right.you know?Um, so it also kind of exposes some of the, again, probably societal pressures, or, like, things that your family d- did that you don't necessarily align with that you can just set free a little bit- Mm-hmm.you know?Yeah.Do you have any final parting thoughts?Anything that you want to share with us?Oh, I just loved being able to chat through some of this stuff, um, and to weave it allRight?It's all weaved.S- just being human.It's life.Yeah.It's life.Yeah.Right?It's like, "Okay-"all of our worlds are so interconnected.Yeah.And so I think that's the, that's the thing that, um, gives me hope with technology, is we- if we can build technology in a way that acknowledges that- Yeah, yeah.um, it can be so powerful.Yeah.Yeah, what I found incredibly refreshing was the fact that you're building a tech and AI company that's focused on helping people as opposed to just churning profits.Which is very nice.Yeah.That's the goal.Yeah.I think that we can all stand from better communication and increased awareness.Actually, I think that's the- the biggest thing we do with this podcast, is we just try to have conversations- Yeah.and increase awareness and increase the communication, and that's what we did today.Thank you so much- Thank you so much.for coming in.Yes, thank you so much, Tara.You're a boss.Thank you, you.That wraps up this episode of the Compound Growth podcast.A big thank you to Tara Ryan for joining us and sharing her insights on AI and, more specifically, Confidante, an incredible platform designed to support mothers through thoughtful, human-centered technology.This conversation was a great reminder that while AI continues to evolve, finding tools with purpose, not just general capabilities, can make all the difference.And hearing Tara speak about maintaining integrity in a male-dominated industry while keeping women's safety and trust at the forefront was both inspiring and eye-opening.It was a great discussion on the future of AI, the balance between innovation and ethics, and what it means to create space for women in tech.Thanks for listening, and we'll see you next time on Compound Growth.with Wheeler and Collin sponsored by Kopai Advisors.Reach out today.Yay!