The Real Cost of Buy Now, Pay Later

Buy now, pay later has gone from a niche checkout option to a fixture of how Americans spend — on everything from concert tickets to groceries to medical bills. The industry processed over $114 billion in transactions in 2024 alone, and the numbers are still growing. But the conversation around it rarely goes deeper than whether a specific purchase is worth it.

This episode does.

Wheeler and Colin break down how BNPL actually works, why it's grown so fast, and what separates a useful financial tool from a mechanism that quietly accelerates debt. They dig into the credit score question — why most BNPL products don't build credit, and what that means for borrowers who are trying to. They cover the real cost of convenience when deferred payments stack up, and where 0% financing is genuinely worth taking.

The bigger thread running through the episode: debt isn't inherently good or bad. A 0% BNPL plan on a Peloton is a different decision than spreading out Coachella across six payments. Context, opportunity cost, and self-awareness about your own spending patterns are the variables that actually determine whether any of these tools help or hurt you. That's true for an $8 burrito and a $3 million home purchase in equal measure.

The episode also covers the history of consumer credit — including the fact that women in the U.S. couldn't open their own credit cards until 1974 — and what the rise of BNPL reflects about how the financial system is evolving for people who have historically been locked out of it.

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Credits:
Created By: Wheeler Crowley and Colin Walker
Production, Editing and Post-Production: Tori Rothwell

Transcript

so I had, sometimes when Tori gives us a topic, as she did today, like, you know, and she provides some research, which is great, and then I do my own research, and then as part of the research I'll go listen to another podcast that might have talked about the same subject.Yep.And so I found this podcast, I'm gonna not name names, um, and it was a- Is it one that I also listen to?No.Okay, so this is just a random- I had never heard of this podcast before.There's so many podcasts out there, so I- Yeah, there's millionsand I was like, "Well, I'll give this one a shot because, like, it's popular."It has a lot of downloads, for example, and then, you know, they had some paid advertisers, so I said, "Well, there's probably, like, some quality."Some legit.Assumed quality- Yeahto this podcast.It was 38 minutes.Okay.And I'm like, all right, that's digestible.Like, I can just- You can get through itpick up some perspective on this topic and compare it to some other perspective I have, et cetera.And so I start listening to it and they're talking about, like, their rodent problem in their city or something like that.Not the topic of the podcast.So it's like, it's like 2 minutes of commercials and then they're doing, like, their soft open.They have a soft open kinda like we do.And I'm, like, clocking this in my head because I've been told that our soft open is a little bit lengthy.So Depending on the episode.So they go for a while and I kinda, like, skip and skip and skip, and then it gets to their, like, their intro music, which is, like, twice as long as ours, and then it gets to more commercials.And then on the other side of that it's still the same topic.Soft open topic.And so this is a 38-minute podcast.Do you wanna know how long the soft open was?I'm gonna be aggressive and say 17 minutes.Close.It was 19 minutes.Holy crap.It was 19 minutes.So there was only 18 minutes of content.Yeah.I mean, thereso it was like a half and half basically of, of, of actual, like, the topic, the reason I was there, and then the rest of it was just advertising, disclosures, and talking about rodents in the city.And-I, I felt the urge very strongly to send this to Tori and say, "See?It's not just our podcast."It's not just us.We're, we're not that bad.We shouldn't benchmark ourselves against that though.No, that's fair.We should strive for better.It's fair.Well, it's like Shay said the other day, the, you know, what is it?Comparison's the thief of joy or something like that.Yeah.I've heard this metaphor before.Yeah.It's good.It's good.And I talked to you recently about how, like, I don't feel like we should necessarily look to see what other people are doing to, like, determine what we're doing.We should just kinda do what's naturally us.Yeah.I mean, weI, a lot of people ask me all the time, "Well, how does my portfolio compare to other clients?"Mm.Or, "Am I okay compared to your other clients in regards to, like, retirement setup?"And it's such a loadedLike, you can't compare one person's situation to another, because everybody is spending differently, living differently.They have accounts in different places.Right.Different goals.And to just blanket statement how am I doing compared to other people.But I'm guilty of that all the time too.As you know, I'm a competitive person, and I just always benchmark myself against other people, and I know that's not the best thing to do, but it happens.I can't help it.It's harder and harder and harder.Especially with social media.With social media has made itLike, the internet and, and social media.Like, there was always, like, I think in, in human history there's always been somebody to compare yourself to.For sure.But I think that, like, we have, we've now developed profiting off of, like, that comparison, right?Like, that's literally why, like, a lot of magazines are sold, for example.Yeah.Like, a lot of clothing is sold.Like, it'sAnd then a lot of the content that's sold.It's all, like, part of the same ecosystem of, like, comparing yourself to other people.Yeah.I do agree with Shay from her episode that, you know, comparison's the thief of joy.But I know that there is some level of drive in me.It's like a sports type thing.Totally.You know?Like, anybody who plays a competitive sport wants to be the best.Like, you don't get to the NBA hoping you're gonna get knocked out in the first round of the playoffs.Yeah.You know?But I feel like what's great about that, and I, I think about this too, 'cause I like to have kind ofI'm, I have that competitive nature as well.Yeah.Um, I don't think we should be getting too worked up about the chess table in our office.Like, I need that, I need that outlet.If you have that itch, you gotta be able to scratch that itch somewhere.Totally.In a healthy way.Yeah.And, you know, competitive sports as you get older become a little bit more risky in terms of, like, whereSo where do you do it, right?Like, it's- Yeahit's harder for me to find that.Kaylee constantly checks me on this.Like, if I- Like, like hip checks you or like mentally?The mental hip check.Yeah.If I am in a position or a state of mind where I'm downtrot about- Mm-hmmwhere I'm at in my life or career or something where, like, "Oh, I should have done that," or, "This didn't work out the way I wanted"- Yeahor, "I should've been doing this and I'm wasting my time," she very quickly checks me and hits me with the quote that Shay mentioned the other day.Always helps me put things into perspective, because it's important to have perspective when it comes to these types of things, so that way you're appreciative.It's impor- Like, I enjoy striving for more and having goals and goal setting.We've talked about this at length in many episodes.But it takes some effort to kinda sit back and take note of where you are.Yeah.Which is healthy.Yeah.I agree.I think to, that's the best perspective is to say, like, you know, just to be here now, right?And then not to time travel so much to think about where you could be or should be or whereEven where you've been sometimes.Like, it's, it's good to acknowledge where you've been and then also not get stuck in the fact that, like, sometimes we get stuck in the past of, "I could have done this better.I could have done that differently," or whatever, and that'sTime travel is a detriment.I'm gonna bring up something else that we talked about in this podcast, the gentleman known as Matthew McConaughey, whoDid you ever see his Oscar speech about- Oh, I love it.Yeah.Yeah.And it, like, his comparison was to him, right?Like, him as an adult.Right.Like, who do you wanna be?Yeah.Me in- In the futurein the future.Yeah.So if comparison is the thief of joy-I would argue that comparison is also the thief of money from your pocket, especially if you have to borrow to achieve whatever it is that you think you need.If you weren't gonna hit me with that, I was gonna hit you with it's important to live in the now- Mm-hmmand enjoy life as if, you know, you're going to concerts and things like that.Wait, that's the opposite of what I was saying though.Such as, such as Coachella-and then I was gonna branch it in.You did a much better job.I, look, I gotta say, the fact that we're able to ever transition away from some of our soft openers is a minor miracle.Some, some of them are elite, but we do get there.Welcome to The Compound Growth Podcast with Colin and Wheeler, where we talk all things growth.From financial growth to career growth, personal development to societal progress, we explore how each layer builds on the next, compounding over time to shape who we become.Each week, we break down complex ideas and emerging trends into clear, actionable insights, because growth isn't just about numbers.It's about understanding the world and our place in it.All right.So today, we're talking about buy now, pay later.Yeah, and the, say, popularity and adoption- Yesof this system that's come out- Increasing popularityover the last few years in particular.Yeah.So what are, like some, some key stats to, to, like right off the bat make us aware of?What, what is buy now, pay later?What are the companies functioning in this space, et cetera?Yeah.So I mean, I think the one that most people are familiar with is Affirm.A lot of the times when you go to checkout from pretty much, I don't wanna say every store, but many online stores now, whether it's like closin- clothing, even groceries, tickets, whatever it might be- Yeahyou have the option of, you know, putting in a credit card, Apple Pay, or pay in installments or pay later with Affirm.And that has grown tremendously in popularity to the point where 56% of US adults have now used a buy now, pay later service.It doesn't just have to be Affirm.There's many others out there.38% of buy now, pay later users, um, have missed a payment- Mm.Not greatwhich we'll get into- Yeahbecause there's costs associated with that, and there's $700 billion in, I'll say, forecasted revenue by 2028.And that's global.That's like, it'sAnd that's, what's really interesting about this story to me is that it's a global story, and, you know, we tend to focus so much on the US.If you wanna just focus on the US numbers, I think it's like $150 billion in total spend on buy now, pay later in just- Yeahlike US numbers.As a single, as a single country, we make up right around 20% of that.So I think just, like for perspective here, and it's always important to kind of point out, like what this is and what this is not, right?This is not, like a crisis.This is- Noa small industry.By comparison, it's $5 trillion in regular spending on credit cards.So- Correctbuy now, pay later as an ecosystem or as like a part of our society is still relatively small.It is.And the other thing is a lot of these buy now, pay later things, I think most skeptics would hear those numbers and say, "That's crazy, the amount of interest that people are paying on these things."Mm-hmm.Mm-hmm.But it doesn't act in the same way a credit card does, where there's every single month that goes by, there's an inherent, you know, 18% to 24% interest rate.Right.Normally, and a lot of the times, it's 0%, and the idea is, is that you're spreading the payment out over, say, 4 pay periods or whatever it might be.So it's delaying the full payment and spreading it out.So it's more digestible for people.Yeah, yeah.And I think it'sI think, what was that fact?That the reason that we're talking about this is I think because Tori saw this fact about Coachella, right?And over half of the Coachella g- general admission tickets, uh, were purchased using a b- buy now, pay later option.That blew me away.Right?And it- Yeahit was, it probably Klarna, I think, or something like that.Yeah.Um, and that's, that's a big deal because that represents a pretty high ticket charge that people are saying, like, "I don't know if I can afford this.I'm going to just spread it out."So I'm likeBecause if it's like $1,300 to go to Coachella- Mm-hmmor whatever, like that's an expensive ticket.It is.It's not as expensive as like, um, maybe Ariana Grande floor tickets.We don't need to talk about that.And they're not floor tickets.For the record, I bought Kaylee tickets for her birthday.She turned 30, and she told me she really wanted Ariana Grande tickets.I bought her the tickets to where I don't think I told you this.And then she was all excited about it, opened it, and she was just like, "Oh my God, this is what I wanted."And then there's, like, a pause, silence."How much were they?"I'm like, "Ah, they were like, you know, a couple hundred bucks."And then she was like, "Well, do you have the receipt?"And I'm like, "Yeah."Don't worry about it.And then I showed her the receipt, and she was just like, "Oh, you should return those."So anyway, they're back up for sale.I- Yeahhonestly wasn't trying to put you on the spot there.Um- No, I knowthat was a subtle dig, but-I actually think that that's a great story that you shared, right?Because you could afford those tickets, right?Mm-hmm.You didn't need to do, like, a buy now, pay later situation to- Nobuy those tickets.And then not only did you have that level of, like, we can afford this, Kaylee's like, "I don't know if we wanna afford it."Yeah, because it's like you can spend the money, but i- in the same way that, I don't know, like, i- if you're gonna get a burger from one restaurant that you really enjoy and it's, like, $15, and there's another restaurant that you go to where a burger is $30- Yeahis that burger worth twice the price?In Kaylee's mind, we can either find another concert or another fun thing to do that's way less expensive that she'll- Yeahenjoy just as much.Yeah.And I think that's a really interesting perspective because th- that is, you know, the situation where we're talking about, you know, all these people buying these very expensive tickets, which could've been, like, like, the worst version of the tickets, like $600- Yeahis, like, the cheapest Coachella ticket.And they're basically saying, "Okay, I can afford this."Some of them- Mm-hmmare saying, "I can afford this because I'm spreading out the payment."And that means that youCan you really actually afford it if you h- have to spread out the payment?Because sometimes, like, spreading out the payment can be a harmless benefit, right?IFor example, I've used buy now, pay later for a couple of different things.So have I, actually.Um, Peloton- Mm-hmmis a perfect example.I feel like that was, like, the first when, when this stuff was, like, skyrocketing in the, in the early '20s.It was, like, almost in alignment with Peloton.It's like- Yeahthis is what everybody's using this thing for.But now you can use it for almost anything.For clothing, anything like this online- Grocery shopping nowcheckout.Grocery shopping has it allowed.Yeah.So, um, the question then becomes, you know, when is this actually a problem?Because if it is something that you can't afford and you're spreading out the payment to afford it, that's not all that difficu- different from, like, a car loan or a, a mortgage or anything like that.No, it's not.I think a lot of the stats that we looked at basically pointed to the fact that there's aAnd we've talked about this before, a huge majority of the population are living paycheck to paycheck, but they don't wanna miss out on things.So what they do is, you know, I'm not saying that this is necessarily right or wrong, we'll get into that, but they'll want to partake in something like Coachella.They don't have the money to do it, so then they try to spread it out as much as possible.Yes, there's no interest to it.But I think the problem in my mind becomes a cash flow problem.Yeah.Because most of the people that have a buy now, pay later loan, on average, have 3 or 4 more on top of it.It's not an isolated event.You and I have done buy now, pay later, but in my situation, I did it when I was buying furniture- Rightfor our house.Yeah.And it was a 0%- Sameloan.And the interest rates on money markets were high.So for me, I was like, "Well, I can pay cash for it, but I would rather leave my money invested and get a couple hundred bucks interest.No big deal."But for someone that is, I'll say, living paycheck to paycheck already, if your expenses are going up and up and up with these buy now, pay later loans, that's just gonna perpetuate the problem long term.Yeah, I think that's theWhen you have a buy now, pay later option and it costs you nothing, right?Yeah.Like, if it'sAnd I honestly, like, the, the only times I've used it in the past, it was, it wasI, I had to connect it to my bank account to take the money out automatically.Like, missing a payment to me would mean that my account was overdrawn or something.Like, I don't know.It wasn't, like, a decision to make that payment every couple of weeks.It was automatic, right?And it was automatic with a 0% loan tied to it.What's interesting to me is, like, if that's the case, it sounds too good to be true, right?I get to spread this cost of this Peloton bike over 3 years and it costs me nothing?Like, how is that?Then in reality, there's a fee that these companies are charging, right?Mm-hmm.And so Peloton will pay, I don't know, 3%-to a firm, I think it was a firm, um, to have that option, and they're using at itor are using it as market adoption, right?Like, let's get out there, makes, make this as, as affordable as we can to people, and a firmWe'll pay a firm, like, the 3% credit charge that we would, you know, pay a credit card company.Yeah.Um, and that to me is not as a risk until you get to the point that you're talking about where you have, like, a Peloton and a couch and a blender- Rightand Coachella tickets.Because it's only $50 a month or it's only 100 bucks a month versus, you know, a full 500 or 1,000 or whatever it might be, but then you get multiple of these going, and before you know it- Yeahit's ramped up.I think the problem is, is like what we were just talking about, the cash flow.But 38% of people have missed a payment, and-will carry a balance.The way that I look at this, and as I was reading through this, you know what it reminded me of is The Big Short.Okay.The reason for that is because I can't remember the 2 guys that started the hedge fund out of their garage, but their whole premise for the hedge fund was is they're gonna get it wrong a lot of the times because they're using options to basically predict or help bank off of very, like, crazy things happening in the market- Surethat were unforeseen.Yeah.And they would miss a lot, but a payout on one of the things would be huge- Yeahif they got it.Yep.The way that I read into this was the average interest rate for a credit card with someone with good credit is usually around 17 and a half to 18%.Uh, normal entry level cards are usually around 24%.If you miss a payment on a lot of these buy now, pay later loans, it's 30%.Wow.So not as many people are missing the payments, but the people that do miss the payments, they're making up for with a much higher interest rate.Yeah, I mean, if you're Affirm or, or Klarna or what was that, uh, Afterpay?Afterpay was- Yeahthe Australian one that I think, like, Square bought- Yepback in the height of things.You're getting the regular fees from the vendors, right?Yeah.Which isI mean, let's, I think it's somewhere between 2 to 8% on average is what the vendor pays, and then, depending on what you're getting for a return on your cash, there's, like, a spread that you capture there as, as the company.But then, yeah, to your point, it's the, the late payments.And what's interesting to me is, like, I've heard the CEO of Affirm talk about how, like, his enemy is, is the credit card industry, right?And how they charge all these exorbitant fees, and, you know, "That's not cool, man."And he's definitely appealing to the younger generations, right?The generation that has leaned into this most tends to skew younger.Mm-hmm.And they're a little bit more, like, anti credit card.Sure.And I think that that was the same methodology, same approach as, like, the Robinhood type of thing, right?Like, let's tell people what they wanna hear.We're, we're democratizing trading.Everything's free.Yeah, we're making the stock market available to everybody, and it's free.Yeah, yeah.Yeah, no trading fees or anything.And it's, it's about, like, disruption and making sure the old guys are not, are eating their hats or whatever.And in reality, the old guys are fine.They're not disrupted.And they're just capturing a different market.This isn'tWe just talked about 150 billion in the US in, in just business transactions through buy now, pay later compared to 5 1000000000000.Buy now, pay later Affirm is not a threat to Visa.Not at all.Like, they're not even the same.They're not the same type of business right?Right.So just the fact that you can choose when you're checking out and buying a sports coat whether you're gonna use, like, Apple Pay, Klarna, or your credit card, it doesn'tThe fact that those 3 things are there doesn't mean that they are all the same.No, it's, it's not all the same, and that's all well and good, but I disagree with what he's saying that, you know, the credit card's are the enemy and this and that.To me, the, the big problem is affordability, and the fact that we've had expenses in country, in the country and globally go up, but wage inflation has remained low.So the solution of that, to that isn't to buy less.It's to spread out the payment.That's not the right message- Rightin my opinion.And I, looking at this, think going back to Kailey and my situation, just because you can afford something doesn't mean you should actually buy it.And if it's going to put you in a position, I get that people don't wanna miss out on life, but you're making financial decisions.I think it just requires more planning versus doing a buy now, pay later.And I'm not demonizing buy now, pay later.Right.'Cause I do think that in some circumstances it does make a lot of sense.You know, as a perfect example, like, if you can get 0% and leave your money invested, then that's all well and good, but it can turn into a slippery slope pretty quickly, especially when you get multiple things on there.If you're already struggling financially- YeahI think you should be asking different questions versus how far can I spread this payment out.Yeah.It's like rolling over your credit cards from one 0% to another to another, you know?Yes, and I know some people who do that.Same.You know, they look at this as they don't wanna pay credit card interest fees, right?But they still wanna live the lives that they live.the lives that they live, and I think where this getsWhere the shame kinda comes into place is when you have people using buy now, pay later for like a burrito, and they're spreading $8 over the course of 4 weeks.There's no benefit.So it's only $2 a week.Yeah.And, you know, if they're paying any interest on that whatsoever, that's ridiculous.But it's also, like, you can say that there's some value here for the unbanked, the people who don't have a lot ofThey don't have credit, for example.Um, but then they don't understand necessarily how this impacts their credit, and fun fact that I learned today and then verified by listening to this podcast that I, I was talking about earlier today, they brought up the fact that, um, that buy now, pay later is on your credit card repor- or your credit report now.Which is a new fact, right?A new thing.Did not know that.It was new as of the end of 2025, and I was like- Wowoh, okay.And, um, you know, again, trust but verify, right?Yes.So I went on and verified this, and the way that it works is exactly kinda to your point.When you stack these on top of themselves, they get counted.They basically are counted against you, right?The more you have stacked, the more it hurts your credit report, and not in a, like, exorbitant way, but just in a little bit.And the credit companies have basically set out and, and said, "Hey, well, these people, they don't have credit cards, so they need to develop credit, and they're using buy now, pay later.Let's use this to help them develop their credit," which obviously sounds altruistic, but of course- It doesis not, not the case.Yeah.And there's, you know, there are a lot of the, of conspiracy theories as to suggestions as to why that might be, uh, to benefit of other people and not the people who they're actually monitoring.But this is, I think, a differentThe people whoWe talk a lot about classes, like economic classes, and the people who are using buy now, pay later, there's different demographics within that as well, and there are the people who can't afford that burrito, right?Or they just likeTo me, buy now, pay later is way better than going to one of those, like, paycheck advance places.It's not predatory lending to me.I honestly, I do feel, like, probably the Affirm CEO is full of it, but at the same time, I don't think this is a flaw in the system.But it is a risk, and you have to understand the choices that you're making and how they can impact you.For sure.It makes perfect sense that this would roll into your credit report, which, you know, something that not actually a lot of people know is I think many people think that having more credit cards hurts your credit score.Yeah.Funny enough, it actually helps your credit score.It does.Because what they look at is tenure of having credit, and then they also look at the amount of payments that you've made on time.If you've missed a payment, that's gonna hurt your credit score.But on top of that, they look at amount of available credit.Yeah, revolving credit available.Revolving credit.So if you have more credit available to you through multiple credit cards and, you know, whatever it might be, um, that actually helps your credit score.Yeah.But the fact that people who have multiple buy now, pay later loans hurts their credit, it's almost the exact opposite.That's a really good point because you don't haveLike, if you, if you have a credit card, and it's, let's say it's got a $5,000 limit on it- Mm-hmmor 10,000, 20 or whatever, and then you pay off whatever you buy, you get to maintain that limit.That limit.Right?And you get to show, "Hey, I have this available credit.Look how, look at me."Totally.Yeah, and in a lot of ways, a mortgage and a car loan, like if you don't have any available credit, can actually boost up your credit score- Yeahbecause it shows a history of you making consistent payments versus a buy now, pay later loan, from what I understand based off of this conversation, hurts you immediately because it counts negatively against your report.It does, and it doesn't likeI, I, I think a late payment on your credit card or student loan or whatever- Mmcan look worse on your credit report.I feel like the way that they're weighting buy now, pay later is a little bit smaller.Yeah, that's what I'm curious about is- Yeahhow it's weighted and judged- Yeahin your credit score.But if you're somebody who doesn't have a lot of other items on your credit r- report, then this is gonna have a bigger impact.Absolutely.You know?It has to.You brought up the global number of, was it like 600, 700 1000000000?Yeah, 700 1000000.Something like that.So this is what I thought was interesting.Where does buy now, pay later come from?It actually comes from some of the Scandinavian countries, first and foremost.Really?Right?So we, you talked about how much we're using in the US.It's actually, in Australia, 43% of user, of, of consumers in the country, it's not that they have used it, they actively use it.It's a massive part of their ecosystem in Australia.So buy now, pay later is most popular in Northern Europe.They have the deepest usage, right?'Cause it kind of like they, it manifested over there.But at scale, it's largest in Asia-Pacific, so Australia, China, right?And then in terms of commercially important, it's most important in the US because of revenue and growth, meaning that the revenue is growing faster in this country and at a higher clip because of all those missed payments that you're talking about.So we don't use this as much as the other countries, but we do a shittier job of using it.So people just aren't managing it as well- Yeahon our end versus other countries.Yeah.What that's saying is, is that we have more late payments than any other country- Yeah, we-per capita, essentially.The interest rate is higher here.There, I mean, there's, there's other aspects.Um, you know, these co- these companies when they are IPO-ing, and Klarna's IPO-ing later this year.Affirm is already public.Um, Afterpay, I think, was public before they got acquired by Square.Um, you know, they are debuting on the New York Stock Exchange or the NASDAQ.I actually don't know which, but in US markets, right?So this is a, like, a business focus and a growth focus more in the US even though it's just, like, a part of normal culture in other parts of the world.It bothers me that this is marketed as a way to, like, people.I get it.I- I, I just can't get over that.Like, it just reminds me of they're trying to make things available to younger people and all that kind of other stuff.When I was younger, if I couldn't afford something, I couldn't buy it.Yeah.And that was great, you know?Like, because oftentimes I slept on something for a few days, or if I had to to wait to buy something, the moment I saved up the money and was able to, I had thought about it enough that I didn't actually want it.Yeah.You know, whenever we make a big purchase in the house, we always sleep on it for a night.I, I hate the idea of being too hasty with- Yeahdecisions, and I think making things available so easy and so quickly removes the friction of having to think about things, and that's not healthy in my mind.I agree.So my daughter has been learning aboutShe's, like, in the, um, in her wellness class learning about drugs and alcohol,And I, I talked about this recently because on the way to her school in Maine, she drives by, on this one road that has, like, I don't know, 3 miles of, like, 10 marijuana stores on, on the way.Is this D.A.R.E.?It'sNo, it's not D.A.R.E.D.A.R.E.'s notMaybe D.A.R.E.'s around anymore.I don't know if D.A.R.E.is still around.Oh, okay.Or- I remember D.A.R.E.just because they brought in the drug dogs.Yeah.D- drugs, drug awareness.What was D.A.R.E.?What did D.A.R.E.stand for?It was, like, drug, alcohol- Resistanceresistance education.Ooh, there you go.Yeah.That works.Anyways, it's not D.A.R.E.Okay.It's just that her wellness teacher doing her best she can to- Aheducate these kids.Fair enough.Um, but, you know, it, it's interesting to me because, you know, these 6th graders are like, "Well, of course drugs are bad."Like, this isn't hard to understand.Yeah.And but then they're like, "Well, why are all these stores here then?"Right?I was explaining, like, well, people have a choice to make, and they can choose to go and, you know, buy their, their weed.Right.Yeah, in the same way that people can buy alcohol and- Yeah, yeah.And she's like, "But just because you can sell it doesn't mean you should."And I'm like, "Well, that's a good point."And this is the same argument that, um, a lot of people have against, like, sports gambling- Rightand stuff like that, you know?But I feel like there's, there's often, like, an altruistic inter- announcement.Like, "Hey, we're making this available because of blah, blah, blah, blah, blah," right?"Here are all the positive reasons to make something available."Everybody with glaucoma- Yeahcan now easily obtain, you know?But of course, the real reason, the motivation is to make money, right?Mm-hmm.So when I went to college, I got my first credit card.I think it was my sophomore year maybe of college.Was it a Discover card?It wa- It might've been actually.It probably was.I still have my Discover card.Yeah.I've been meaning to close it.It'sDon't do that.It's gonna impact your credit score.No, I know, but-I don't even, I haven't used it in forever.But it's predatory practice, right?We're gonna give every 18 or 19-year-old on this college campus a credit card if they don't have one already, and we're not going to really make sure that they're going to be able to pay their credit card off when they start using it.But now, because they're in school, and they're w- and they're, you know, full-time students, maybe they have a part-time job, but they're, like, living their life on their own for the first time, and they, they wanna go out and do things and buy things, and they don't have the availability to do that.They deserve it.So yeah.Yeah.Let's make it so they can get these things that they deserve.They're working really hard.Yeah.Right?So Tori, when were women first able to have credit cards?1974.1974.So prior to that, um, it hadI think it was, like, in the '50s maybe they started to realize that most household decisions were being directed by the woman of the home, right?Um, that would traditionally be, like, a housewife who is going to the grocery store and, and determining all the spending while their husband's hard at work in the city or whatever it be.In the '70s, you started to see more independent women, women that were marrying later or getting divorced or whatever, and if the credit card industries didn't give them access to their own credit, they were going to lose that consumption, that driving force of consumption.that driving force of consumption.So you can say, wow, women's rights, they can have a credit card now, and that's true.But they're not doing it out of the kindness of their hearts.They're doing it so they can make more money, and every time that we kind of expand the mode or create a new option or opportunity, that's what's behind it.Yeah.There's clearly a driving force, especially in the stock market for publicly traded companies- Right.Yesto increase your revenue- Yeahbecause that's gonna increase your stock price and all shareholders and people that benefit from that company will in turn benefit from that move.Just think that, you know, what is the, what is the quote?The road to hell is paved with the best intentions.That's true.You know?That's true.And I'm not saying that PNP loans are the worst thing in the world by any means, and we've been through that.But, um, I don't know, I, I miss the days of having some friction when it came to payments or having to wait to save.Yeah.Because one of my favorite memories going back was I was 15 maybe at the time, and this was going back to when, like, flat screen TVs were- Yeahjust coming out.And I don't know if you remember Circuit City.Oh, yeah.Of course.Circuit City was actually responsible for the founding of CarMax.Yeah.But anyway, if you remember Circuit City, I remember going in there and the TVs being so expensive at the time when, like- Yesflat screen and LCD- YeahTVs first came out.But I really, really wanted one so bad, so my dad was like, "Well, you know, looks like you're gonna need to find a job to get yourself one of these TVs."So I started a landscaping company when I was 15, went around the neighborhood and mowed all my neighbors' yards.Yeah.And I saved up, I remember very clearly, $720.Ooh.And I bought- What size?17 inch.To max- On my wallit's like the monitor It's smaller than our, than our computer monitors.Pretty sure those are 21s.Yeah.So anyway, but I got this 17-inch LCD little TV that all my friends came over and we'd play Xbox and we'd huddle around it, and the fact that I had to wait a long time and save up to buy it was so awesome- Yeahbecause I appreciated it so much, and then I knew by the time I got the money that's what I really wanted.Yeah.But the ability to just go in and just buy things so quickly I think is not good because I know we're trying to drive consumption as capitalistic society to drive stock prices.But I would encourage people, if, you know, you're thinking about whether or not you should buy or delay or use one of these things, is it something you really want?Maybe you should give it a few days to think about it.Look, I, I think that, um, that's true, right?Hit pause, right?The power of pause and slowing down and just- Yeahlike making sure that you need something.And there is that kind of like that fine line between need and want.And, you know, we just talked about in the 1970s is when women had access to their own credit cards.My mom was a single mom in the 1980s.It's not that far removed from there.Not at all.And she was not only that, but she was, you know, a, a single mom going through a divorce that was, you know, messy and expensive, et cetera, and a high school teacher.So if you don't have access to credit at that point, it's really hard.It is.You know, and thisshe was also brought up in a household that was very regimented in terms of spending and just making sure that you understood how important saving was, et cetera.Like, you know, she was not a frivolous spender.But she was able to do things that she probably otherwise wouldn't have been able to do, and she didn't hurt-- she didn't shoot herself in the foot in the process because she- Yeahhad the right education.And I think that's the point of all of this, is that these tools are neither good nor bad.They are just more tools at your disposal that you wanna make sure you know how to use and use correctly so that you are making the right kinda choices that you're bringing up, which frankly are hard.They are hard.And, you know, to your point, and to Mikayla's point as well about asking about, you know, well, if drugs are bad, then why are there marijuana stores?Right.You know, it, it's a tool, to your point, and to some people it's really necessary and beneficial, and to other people, it is, it could be the kiss of death in a lot of ways.Yeah.So I think just self-reflection is very important to understand how you're gonna use it and to make sure you're gonna use it responsible.And if you know yourself well enough to know that it's gonna hurt you financially, then stay away from it and take some time to think about the decisions you're gonna make and- Yeahreflect on it.Yeah.I think that's the overall point.I don't know what we did or did not cover in our agenda today.I feel like we were all over the place today, but that's m- maybe, maybe what we needed.Yeah.Um- I agree.I think overall it was good.Overall good.I think a couple closing facts just for functionality.We talked about, like, those Peloton loans, those were 0% loans, right?I would personally look at 0% loans as long as they're being managed and paid appropriately as a pretty good option for you.For sure.Any of the longer term plans when you're, like, spreading out that Coachella cost or Airbnb or something like that and you're just saying, like, "I, I wanna pay some interest along the way," et cetera, then it becomes a little bit moreI have a question.Yeah.Car loans.Yes.At what point do you tell someone to finance versus buy?Ooh, man.Are we talking used car or new car?Let's go new.New car, finance versus buy?I meanSo finance versus all cash, 'cause there's leasing as well.Correct.Yeah.FinanceWe won't talk leasing.Ooh.Finance versus all cash.I would say I, in general, with a car loan, I look at, like, what you're getting for rates, right?Versus what you're getting for an interest on your high yield savings or, or money market, et cetera.For sure.Yeah.Yeah, yeah, yeah.What, what do you earn in the alternative?Yeah.It's a combination of whether or not you can earn more in the market or in money markets, you know, if you were to leave your cash on the sidelines.hopefully you have the cash.Yeah.But if you do have the cash, leaving it on the sidelines versus actually investing it.I think for me, with these 0% loans, if you have to make the purchase and you're gonna make the purchase, then it's something worth looking at.But do you need the purchase is the question.Yeah.I, I feel like all these decisions, and, you know, we're talking about the smallest things like an $8 burrito, but I'll also bring up the largest thing, like a $3 million home.Mm-hmm.And, you know, we have clients that are looking to buy a $3 million home, and they wanna pay all cash, and they can afford to do that, and it won't negatively impact their financial plan.But it dries up liquidity that could otherwise be put towards other things.So I feel like there are complexities at play that need to be explored because debt isn't by definition bad.No, it's not.Yeah.I think debt in a lot of ways is actually very, very good and helpful to have.Yeah.Certainly when, you know, you look at a lot of the businesses that have gotten a ton of publicity over the last few years in the stock market, there's many of them that aren't profitable at all.Yeah.And take on serious debt to grow and expand and hire and whatever it might be.That doesn't mean that it's bad.It just means that you're expanding your footprint, and in the same way that taking on a loan to buy a house to get yourself situated with a family and put roots down isn't a bad thing either.Yeah.They are retired and not We'll gloss over that.Look, and it's not bad to, to use buy now, pay later to go to Coachella.It's not- No, it's notwe're not, we're not shaming here.I think, look, I am reminded constantly that, you know, we are not promised tomorrow, and that you have to make choices today that you can stand behind.And sometimes that means spending extra on a really expensive concert ticket, and then sometimes it means not.And I think that it'sYou just have toAs long as you're making a decision, and it's, it's a well-thought-out decision to the best of your abilities, to the best of any of our abilities, then just be aware of the risks and the consequences behind it- Yeahand then go for it.And the opportunity cost.Yeah.I think that's really the main message.Opportunity cost is a good way to look at it.Cool.Indeed.Awesome.All right.Um- Like, subscribe- Yeahshare with a friend.Share with a friend.Send questions.Yes, please.To compoundgrowthpodcast@gmail.com.Yep.It's the best idea.And, uh, feel free to leave comments in the section below.Yes.Only positive vibes.Yes.Positive vibes only, please.Thanks, all.Thanks.The information in this material is for general information only, and is not intended to provide specific advice or recommendations for any individual.Investment advice offered through Integrated Partners doing business as CoFi Advisors LLC, a registered investment advisor.Integrated Partners does not provide legal, tax, mortgage advice or services.Please consult your legal tax advisor regarding your specific situation.Past performance is no guarantee f- of future results.All investing involves risk, including loss of principal.No strategy assures success or protects against loss.The economic forecast set forth in this material may not develop as predicted, and there can be no guarantee that the strategies promoted will be successful.Compound Growth with Wheeler and Colin.Sponsored byCoFi Advisors.Reach out today.Yay