Compound Growth

Moderna's Best Day Ever, Nvidia's Plan to Securitize Compute, and Dark Fiber All Over Again

• Compound Growth • Season 2 • Episode 29

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0:00 | 40:39

Moderna jumped roughly 130–137% in a single day this week on a major mRNA cancer breakthrough: a personalized cancer shot, built using AI to sequence a patient's own tumor, completed Phase 3 trials with strong results. The hosts trace it back to Keytruda, the immunotherapy drug that's driven much of Merck's revenue for about 14 years, which works by helping the immune system detect cancer that would otherwise hide from it. Moderna's shot goes a step further, tailoring treatment to each patient's specific tumor, first tested in melanoma and now expanding into bladder cancer. Tempus AI, which does the AI sequencing behind the scenes, was only up about 12% the same day, a reminder the service provider rarely captures the same upside as the company that owns the drug. With short interest near 13% against the S&P average of 2.5%, the hosts debate whether this is a short squeeze as much as a scientific breakthrough, and revisit Morgan Housel's "buy low, sell high" critique: you don't plant a tree so you can cut it down.

That leads into a broader AI-investing thesis: favor the "downfield" companies with long track records already seeing real ROI from AI adoption, the shovel sellers over the gold miners. They flag hesitation around chipmakers like Micron, where near-term value may already be priced in, versus well-run, non-cyclical companies just beginning to benefit.

A stock screen with the firm's intern surfaces a diabetes-treatment company, sparking a debate about investing in treatments versus cures: a treatment is recurring revenue, while a cure, like Gilead's hepatitis C drug, is a one-time win with no repeat business. That leads into the widely covered Lindsay Clancy case, a mother's postpartum psychosis that escalated after weeks of rising antidepressant doses, which the hosts use to raise a broader point about underfunded research into women's health, particularly around childbirth and postpartum care, relative to men's health.

The back half digs into a CNBC-hosted Nvidia town hall with banks including KKR, floating a plan to package AI compute into a tradable asset class, "compute notes" that guarantee performance and pay interest, with Nvidia positioned as matchmaker rather than lender. The hosts compare it to pre-leasing a commercial building or securitizing aircraft, and revisit the dot-com-era "dark fiber" buildout, when telecom companies laid far more capacity than was needed, only for it to fill up decades later. Their disagreement: today's compute is being used right now, not decades from now, which changes the risk without resolving it. Both agree the underlying AI investment is producing real returns; they're skeptical anyone needs a new securitized product to capture it.

Closing out, the hosts pick apart a Betterment survey claiming 22% of Gen Z investors treat prediction markets as part of their financial plan, a number drawn from roughly 250 of 1,000 respondents with no visibility into how the question was actually worded. That leads into an AI-generated deepfake video of several former presidents singing that fooled an older relative on Facebook, and a wider conversation about financial literacy, the wealth gap, and Trump savings accounts for kids. They close on how constant comparison online creates a sense of missing out that didn't exist growing up with less money, tying it back to a documentary about a small Italian town overwhelmed by tourists chasing an Instagram-perfect version of the place.

Sources:
Moderna, Phase 3 trial and stock update (referenced on the recording; not independently verified this session)
Merck, Keytruda background (referenced on the recording)
Tempus AI (referenced on the recording)
Betterment, Gen Z investor survey (referenced on the recording; not independently verified this session)

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Credits:
Created By: Wheeler Crowley and Colin Walker
Production, Editing and Post-Production: Tori Rothwell

There's a lot of companies that are based on the price of compute right now, and like the iRins of the world.Yeah.We don'tThat's already happening.I just don't think you need anything complex like this.Well, I agree with you that we don't need anything complex, and this whole build-out is based off of, like, an estimate of compute needed in years down the line.Sure.You know?And it's like, I mean, if we go back to dark fiber, that was literally exactly what was happening.I mean, there was the internet boom.Yeah.They built out a ton of fiber because they were like, "Every company is going to need internet.Every company is gonna have a huge demand.Every consumer is gonna use internet."And it, it, it was true.Everyone did, but the fact of the matter is, is the build-out was exponentially more than what was needed in that exact moment.But I don't think we're there yet.So most of the fiber sat unused- Rightfor many years, and the problem is, is as we know, being too early and being wrong is the same thing.Except right now, the, in that allegory, every piece of fiber is being used.So, like, every- Yesavailable- Every fiber is being-used now- Or el- Yes30 years later.But that's the thing, is the build-out is being consumed right now.Everything that is created is being u- used.At some point, that might not be the case.Right.So that's, that's the point, though.Like, in the early days of the internet, it was all being used.So then every company came in, and then built out more fiber.Right.So as- But what we're saying is, like, the fiber build-out is a future thing.What we're talking about right now is synthesizing compute that exists.Yes.I mean, I agree with you.I don't think it necessarilyThey're trying to commoditize it because it makes, it's more profitable for them to commoditize.Right.You know?And whether or not that's a good idea or not, I guess the world won't know until it's actually done.Welcome to the Compound Growth Podcast with Colin and Wheeler, where we talk all things growth.From financial growth to career growth, personal development to societal progress, we explore how each layer builds on the next, compounding over time to shape who we become.Each week, we break down complex ideas and emerging trends into clear, actionable insights.Because growth isn't just about numbers.It's about understanding the world and our place in it.Have you ever heard of Map Tap?Okay.What is it?Map Tap.This isn't, like, a hunting thing?No.Okay.It is, it is a app that is pretty fun.I've been doing this the last few mornings.It's- My friend turned me onto this.It's an app on your phone.It is an app.And it is a quiz every morning where you have a globe.And then it gives you 5 locations in the world- Okaygetting progressively more difficult.Okay.And you scroll around the globe, and you tap the globe to see how close you can get geographically.How zoomed in are you?How accurate do you need to be?You can get pretty zoomed.Okay.So, like, as an example, one of them was Barcelona this morning, so find Barcelona- Okayon a map.Sure.Which doesn't sound that difficult- Rightbut the thing is, is nothing is labeled on the globe.It is just an empty globe.Oh.So you can zoom in, though, and see lights in certain areas.But the thing is, I tapped the wrong city in Spain, but I was very close.I was only, like, 100 miles off.It's inland, right?It is inland.North inland.But I'mIt, well, actually it's not that inland.It is coastal, but it's more up kind of north, in the north band of Spain.Yeah, north.Yeah, okay.Yeah, yeah, yeah.Barthelona.Anyway, it's really fun.So, okay.So anybody that's into geography, I would recommend checking out Map Tap.My friend turned me onto it, and it's actually really great, and you compete with your friends.Were youThat part I could enjoy.Were you into geography before you got this app sent to you?Yes.For some reason, I am growing old mentally at a very quick rate.I am obsessed with World War II history.Now I'm obsessed with geography.I'm really into searing steaks lately.Mm.Like, all my newsfeeds are about getting the perfect sear on your steak at home, smoking meats.Okay.You know, like, all that sort of thing that you- Dude, you talked about this stuff a year ago.You were like, "You know, there are 3 categories of guys."I'm getting deeper into it.Now you're all of them.Now I'm, I've also picked up geography.Okay.So anyway, anyone that's looking for- Map Tap is a-a fun thing to compete with- OkayI will happily compete with you if you wanna hop in with it.I'm not very good.Oh, no, dude, I would be so bad.It's, dude, one of them was, like, one of them was a city in Afghanistan this morning.I had no idea Afghanistan was so close to India.I thought it was up by Saudi Arabia.I, I did know that, but only because I feel like everything that's going on with the Iran war has- Yeahincreased everybody's understanding of that particular- Of that geography.Yeah, exactly.That section.Yeah.Yeah.So that one I- Okaygot butchered on, but anyway.All right.Regardless.Cool news today.Tell us, tell us the cool news that is only 30 minutes old as of this podcast recording on Monday, August 19th.So as I'm preparing, I'm sitting at my desk, and Dan, you know, Dan- Oh, boy.Of course.Dan, our, our constant news source.He turns over and he goes, "Hey, did you see what happened with Moderna?"Uh-huh.And I was like, "No."And he goes, "Check the, check the ticker."So- I gotta, I gotta tell you, ifI was running late today.Uh-huh.So I didn't get that moment with Dan, first thing before I pod.I got the moment- You got the moment'cause you weren't here.I feel like- You usually get the moment.I know what it feels like, too.I've been there.I've been like, oh, yeah, that moment where Dan's, like, gonna cue you in the one thing that you're gonna be excited to talk about in the podcast.Right before the podcast.Yeah, exactly.Yeah.All right.Okay.All right, so- I wonder if he knows, I wonder if he knows to do that the of the podcast, but Moderna- It's a game, it's a game he's playing with us.It is.I tell you.Tell us, Moderna is up 130% today.In a single day.Were people short Moderna?Is that a squeeze?No, it is not a squeeze.Come on.They had a huge breakthrough today with an mRNA shot with a cancer approval going through, like, phase 3 trials today.So basically what they did is they, like, are, are taking tumors.So, well, let me back up.So have you ever heard of Keytruda?This is Colin's science corner- This is-where he gets to- Yeah, it isexplain things poorly.I feel like I need to explain things before I go into this mRNA shot No, it's good Have you ever heard of Keytruda?Keytruda?I have seen all the commercials for Keytruda Yes.So Keytruda was the number one selling drug- Yesuntil GLP-1s actually became huge last year.But it is a, uh, essentially a cancer drug, a cancer shot, and it was actually most of Merck's revenue going back, and it was released about 14 years ago, but was proclaimed to be the, I'll say, biggest breakthrough in cancer research in history, and one of the biggest cancer- Yeahbreakthroughs just in general.So essentially what Keytruda does is it's an immunotherapy drug, and if you think about cancer and the way that cancer works, like cancer's obviously an invasive thing for your body, and what it does is it hides from your immune system.And what Keytruda does is essentially helps avoid that trick that cancer does.So it basically helps reveal the cancer a little bit more to your body, so that way it can fight it off better.Right.Okay.Yep.Yeah, yeah, yeah.So that became like a huge thing, but it, it's not like 100% successful.It's not like if you get the Keytruda shot, if you've got like metastasized melanoma, like that's just gonnaYou like, you're good at that point.Yeah.But what it did is it took survival rates up very dramatically after that shot was introduced.So Moderna has been working actually with an AI company, which I'll talk about here in a second, to basically do a tack-on shot using mRNA.So basically what they do is they take a sample of your tumor, and then they use AI research and basically they create a specialized mRNA shot for you that reveals the cancer even more so.And apparently, the success of this shot has been very, very positive, and it just got approved for, well, essentially it just got completed phase 3 trials and was incredibly successful.Hasn't-- I think Moderna has had a hard time getting things approved with the current administration.Their stock has gotten smoked- So-over the last few yearsdo you know what the short interest is in the stock, like the percentage or shares?Oh, I assume it's huge.Yeah Well, this is, this is why I'm, I'm saying is there a short squeeze?Yeah.Because the average S&P 500 company has a short interest of maybe 2.5%.That's like, that's not even saying like you should expect that.That's skewed, obviously.That's- Yeahyou know, the marginal rate.2.5% is the- Is the averagethe typical S&P 500 short interest.Moderna's at 13%.Yeah.So- So 10Xyeah, it's, it's pretty, pretty high.It's a pretty big short squeeze, yeah.It's 8X high.So I, I think that when you see, if you're an investor and you see activity like this, it's funny because Dan and I were just talking about Morgan Housel's latest podcast, and he was, one of the things he was talking about was typical, like, not jargon, but financial phrases that he doesn't align with.And- Morgan Housel'sMorgan Housel.Yeah.Yeah.And one of the phrases he mentioned was "buy low, sell high."And the reason that he doesn't like that phrase is it suggests that there's a selling point.It's, it's basically, it's not investing, it's trading.It's basically you try to buy something, ride it up and sell it, and that's trading versus- Yeahinvesting.Well, also, I think, I don't know if he was talking about this, but we've talked about it on the podcast too, just because something's high doesn't necessarily mean it's expensive.Sure.Yes.That's, that's definitely true, but that's not what he was referring to.Yeah.He was referring to the, just the con- the, the sage advice of buy low and sell high.He was take, basically comparing that to planting a tree.You don't plant a tree so you can cut it down and burn it in your fire pit.Wood rod Right?Like essentially you're not- Right.Yeah, that's a good pointright?So he feels like it's important to focus on investing versus trading, and the plan to sell is only when you need money.I can say our largest clients that I can think of off the top of my head all became very wealthy because they had stock that, uh, that they never sold.And that's, that's something we've talked about a lot- Rightin this podcast, and something I think even just 10 years ago when we were working with some of these clients, it, we didn't feel that effect as much as we do now because the compound growth over the last 10 years has been insane on some of these- Yeahthese stocks.If you own Moderna waking up today on Wednesday, August 19th, you might wanna sell, right?Because this is one of those where it's like I, I hate when this happens to stocks- I knowthat I wanna hold for the long term because the question is, is it a bad idea to lock in 137% one-day profit?Now, who knows what you're in at and how much you're down coming into this.Yeah, I know.That's the tricky part.It depends on your buy-in price.Like, if you bought 4 weeks ago, I don't know.Right.But, like, if you've, you know, been riding this thing for the last 2 years just down and down and down- Yeahnow you have an opportunity to get out with a profit.And maybe it will shoot, it will continue up from here, but I think when you see a move like this, I look at that as this doesn't make a lot of sense.It's- No, of course notfairly irrational, and- It isI know that there's heavily, you know, there's some squeezed shorts here absolutely at play.I expect this price will come down.I could sell it and then maybe buy it again and ride it back up, or you just gotta deal with the fact that it- It's gonna be a wild ride.Yeah.Yeah.Well, what's funny about this is Moderna's up 137%, but Tempus AI, who is the AI company that's essentially behind all of this, so you have Moderna that's working through all the trials and whatnot, but what they're doing is they're taking the sample of the tumor and then they're sending it to Tem, which is basically doing, like, kind of all the back-end AI work to try to develop the sequence of the shot.Yeah.So, Tempus is actually a, a very interesting company.It's basically in partnership with Merck too because they're the ones that are doing all of the AI build-out on the back end because all these mRNA shots are personalized to you.It's not like they just have these shots on the shelf.Yeah.So, it's specific to your tumor, and they're only up 12% today.Yeah.WellSo, you know, you look at that, and then just, just kind of like, "That's kinda crazy."Well, they're not, like, their profit doesn't skyrocket the same way that Moderna's can, right?Like, just baseThey've used- Because they don't own the drugthey've provided the service already.But basically, I mean, if you look at Tem in general, like, they're the back end of all of this, and I think about the goldmine, right?Yeah.Like, I wanna- Dig some shovelsI wanna, I wanna own the shovels.I don't know if it's necessI, I think if you're looking at AI and you're saying, "This is all a bubble.This is all ridiculous, blah, blah, blah," what you wanna see is the, the downfield benefits to this.You wanna- For suresee the other companies that are not AI companies benefiting from their investment in AI and getting that ROI that everybody's like, "I don't know if we're gonna see the ROI."Right.I don't know if I wanna own Micron for the next 10 years personally because I feel like a lot of the value that Micron is going to create has been pulled forward, whereas some of these downfield companies that have long trou- track records of being really well run and not cyclical- Rightthey are going to continue to benefit from that investment for years to come.Oh, yeah, and you think about us as a consumer.I mean, just in the last 10 to 12 years of cancer research- Yeahis, like, crazy, and I mean, they really started testing this really with melanoma, but they're moving into a bunch of other, you know, cancers now.They're looking at bladder cancer, um, so this is gonna be a pretty innovative and pretty massive thing, I think, over the next 5 to 10 years, so we'll see what ends up happening, but- Exciting stuffit is very exciting stuff, and it's amazing because, you know, all this is kind of brought to you by AI, I hate to say it, in a lot of ways.And people are talking about the benefits of stuff, and I think people think mostly about ChatGPT, but you think about the effects on medicine and all these other different fields.That's what I mean.It's- Yeahreally, really cool.So, to your point, I think, like, certainly, you know, there are companies that are at the forefront of AI that you hear about all the time, but then there are the companies on the back end that are using AI to develop new products and new science and things like that- Yeahthat the consumer benefits from, and if the consumer's benefiting from it, that company will benefit too by sales.Yeah.Agreed.I think people, when they think about the AI investment, they think about the people who are empowering AI more than anything else.Yeah.Um, and then they think about the po- potentially disrupted companies, right?Well, this, you know- Yeahobviously, you know, Claude is gonna destroy Schwab, right?Or, like, you know- YeahSalesforce is gonna go out of business because everybody's just gonna have their own personal CRMs.Salesforce couldn't provide that.But I think that this is the next step to it.It's thinking about the impact.And this is why the market is doing so well.It's broadening because a lot of these companies are starting to experience the benefits, and it's not because they might someday experience the benefits, it's because they currently are.Yeah.Well, I think the important distinction, too, is it's not necessarily the AI companies that are going to experience the benefits.It's the companies that are using AI that are experiencing the benefits.Yeah.Yeah.Yeah.Not to say that AI companies aren't doing well, too, butI was, Dan and Zach the intern and I were looking at stocks the other day, and one of the stocks that Zach suggested, we, we kinda put him through this process where he did some research on, I think it was the Russell 1000, um- Okaypossibly the 3000.He started with a lot of stocks and- Big pooland he narrowed it down to 14- Okay15, something like that.And one of the stocks was one that Dan was familiar with, and it was a, like, a diabetes company, a company that provides- Medicine or equipment, I can't remember which- Mm-hmmfor, to treat diabetes, and I was like, "I don't know if I would invest in the treatment for illness at this point."Yeah.I'm always really hesitant on that stuff because it's so dependent on, well, 1, legislation is like- Surea huge thing.Yeah.You know, someone could come in, and a lobbyist has huge control over that industry just in general, so- Yeahyou're always subjected to whether or not something gets approved.But yeah, I mean, that's a, it's a bit of a dice roll.But I, it's more to me the cure thatLike, why invest in the treatment?The treatment is more profitable in general.Like, you've seen- Of coursecompanies like Gilead, for example.Yeah.They cured, I can't, like, hepatitis.I can't remember what they, what they, what they cured.They cured something, and it was a big blockbuster drug for them, but it cured.So it doesn't, it's not SaaS.It doesn't continue to provide- There's no recurring revenuethat service.Exactly.Yeah.And treatment is recurring revenue.However, we live in a phase of life where we might be getting to the point where we're able to cure more, and more, and more.So investing in the treatment isn't necessarilyI'd rather invest personally in the care for people as they are able to age lon- and, and live longer because of all of these cures or advanced treatments.Kaylee and I were talking about this yesterday, the Lindsay Clancy trial.So it's, do you know about this?Yeah, yeah.Yeah, yeah, yeah.So the Lindsay Clancy trial.So Kaylee was watching it, uh, yesterday, and, uh, she was home sick from work.But long story short, we were sitting there on the couch.I was doing other things, and I was just listening to it in the background, and she was suffering from postpartum depression.And as opposed to them kind of being like, you know, "How could we make you kinda feel better?"Or, "Maybe you need some time from work," she was on 13 different antidepressants in a matter of 6 weeks.Yeah.Like, it's so crazy to me that the way that our system is set up right now is to just, like, treat things, but not, like, find the cause and cure them because of the profitability of it.Right.Well, I think first it's, it's, for her, it was postpartum psychosis, so it just, the clear effect- Well, it started with depressionSure.Right.Yeah.Yeah.But, like, the issue that it's, it's easy if you, we, we don't point out that it was the psychosis aspect of it.Yeah.So it started with- It's easy to think that's what postpartum depression looks like and all.Yeah.So I mean, it started with depression- But we need to-and then like a week or 2 later it started to advance, and then it got more advanced- Yeahand they started prescribing more, and more, and more.And then that was it, so.But I think that's, that whole situation, we're going down a rabbit hole.But it feels like it's symptomatic of a society that doesn't value women's health the same way that it values men's health.There's a lot of research dollars that go towards studying men's health, less that goes to studying women's health, and especially around childbirth.I think that there's l- not a lot of time that goes into understanding these situations, so you get to the point where you're brain up, where they don't know how to care for people.Yeah.So they over-prescribe just a bunch of different things.Just a ton of crap- And just like-with all these side effects, and it's likeyou just throw shit at the wall and- Righthope it works out.So it's really, it's tragic, but I think it's great that it is bringing a, a little bit more awareness to that situation.Well, that's what we were talking about, too, is as horrible of a situation, this is pretty much as bad as it could possibly get.It is starting to bring some awareness to the point that we really don't have great solutions or much knowledge in general about this type of problem.Yeah.And it's kinda crazy that it got to this point- Yeahgiven how many doctors were involved.Well, here we are, 2 white men talking about women's health again.Um.Changing topics.Changing topics.Let's talk about NVIDIA.Can we go back to- Yeah, let's go back to NVIDIAthe market a little bit?Yeah.So last week I was on vacation, but the world went on, apparently, without me, and I guess while I was out, NVIDIA had sort of a, a town hall situation set up with CNBC where they brought on a bunch of large companies, large lenders.Banks.Banks, KKR, et cetera- Yeahto talk about how else they could generate some value and wealth from this AI build-out, and they have come up with the idea that they can basically treat compute, right, the power behind AI, as a commodity, and they will synthesize some commute, com-compute notes, right, where they will guarantee performance of that compute investment for someperiodof time, and they'll pay you interest along the way, and they're, they're basically, to some extent, becoming the bank of Nvidia.They're, they're not actually going toWhat's great about them is that they're not actually involved in any financial way.They are just arranging, they're matchmaking, right?Yeah, so it's- Or they're guaranteeing the product, but they're matchmaking.So essentially, a bank can come in and build out a facility using Nvidia, and Nvidia will lend them the compute power, and you can even finance it if you want.And as they build this out, they will match customers to the person that is building out the infrastructure.Yeah.You wanna know what it reminds me of, is it reminds me of, like, building out commercial businesses or commercial, like, spaces for businesses.Like if you are a developer, like let's just say you're Goldman Sachs, and you wanna build an office building.Mm.So you build up this office building, and then you try to find as many leasers as possible before it's completed.Yeah.And then at the end of the day, you know, you probably have some vacancy, but this is essentially what you're doing, and then you have the equity in there.The only difference is that I find interesting is the fact that Nvidia is willing to buy back some of these compute powers after a certain period of time to ensure that it's not completely erroneous- Yepafter 3 or 4 years.But it's basic- They're, they're, like, guaranteeing and pledging, basically.It's like when you're raising money for a charity or a foundation or something that you want donations.Pledges are great, but donations- It's not a donationare money in, in your hand.Right.I think that my issue with the analogy to a building or to, like the KKR was basically talking about, well, this is the same as, you know, when we structure products like this for planes, right?Because the plane has an inherent value.Yep.So, you know, it, this, the note essentially is supported by the value of the plane.That'sHow many planes are there, Colin, do you think that are made everyHow many planes do B- does Boeing make any given year?Boeing?Oh, God.You wanna say it's a lot- Tens of 1000?It's not.You wanna say it's a lot, it's not.Really?It's very, very small.And if you're Goldman Sachs and you're building a building, you're, this is the equivalent of building a city and basically guaranteeing occupancy in every building in that city and knowing that that demand isn't going to slow down over the decade that you're building out that city.It's the- But how do we know- It's a massive scalethe demand isn't gonna slow down, though?That you don't.That's my point.Yeah.They're scaleThey're, they're making massive scale assumptions.This is literally just the dark web coming back, or not the dark web.But a lot of this compute is going to be used.I, I just don't know that we need to overcomplicate things with creating a compute category for people to get paid interest on for thatLike, it's just, I don't know why- Yeahwe need to do that.We don't need this.Well, I think the thing is, is they want people to adopt it quicker, and they want, obviously, to continue to sell these types of things.And as a, like if, if you're Goldman Sachs in this instance, to shell out $100 billion in GPUs when you know in 3 to 4 years Nvidia's GPUs are gonna be completely different, like that's a hard pill to swallow because you need to build it out.You need the facility.You need the engineering.You need the electricity.Yeah.You need all that stuff, and that's probably at least a two to 3year build-out, and then you have permitting on top of that.So you've boughten the GPUs, and by the time you're already done, they're already outdated, so then you need to redo it again.Well, I think what they're saying is that these things are not outdated as quickly as- As-as people thinkyeah, that's their argument.But I, I just, my point isn't whether or not this will work.I don't think we need to package synthesized obligations like we did with, like the housing market, for example- Yeahto create a new income stream or a new value.The, the value's already there.If, if, we talked about this earlier in the podcast, if companies are starting to see ROI from the creation of this AI utility, why do we also nee-need to see outside of stocks in those companies and bonds in those companies a whole category of compute that's basically like asset allocation?You would, you would, you would have compute as a categorical allocation- It's basically a- Yeah, a REIT or- Yeahlike some sort ofI, honestly, I think it's more like oil.It's the va- the price of that compute goes up, will go up and down and treat it as something like that.There's a lot of companies that are based on the price of compute right now, and like the Irons of the world.Yeah.We don'tThat's already happening.I just don't think you need anything complex like this.Well, I agree with you that we don't need anything complex, and this whole build-out is based off of, like an estimate of compute needed in years down the line.Sure.You know?And it's like, I mean, if we go back to dark fiber, that was literally exactly what was happening.I mean, there was the internet boom.Yeah.They built out a ton of fiber because they were like, "Every company is going to need internet.Every company is gonna have a huge demand.Every consumer is gonna use internet."And it, it, it was true.Everyone did, but the fact of the matter is, is the build-out was exponentially more than what was needed in that exact moment.But I don't think we're there yet.So most of the fiber sat unused- Rightfor many years, and the problem is 'Cause as we know, being too early and being wrong is the same thing.Except right now, the, in that allegory, every piece of fiber is being used.So, like, every- Yesavailable- Every fiber is being used- Piece of, or 0now, 30 years later But that's the thing, is the build-out is being consumed right now.Everything that is created is being u- used.At some point, that might not be the case.Right.So that's, that's the point, though.Like, in the early days of the internet, it was all being used.So then every company came in and then built out more fiber.Right.So, as- But what we're saying is, like, the fiber build-out is a future thing.What we're talking about right now is synthesizing compute that exists.Yes.I mean, I agree with you.I don't think it necessarilyThey're trying to commoditize it because it makes, it's more profitable for them to commoditize.Right.You know?And whether or not that's a good idea or not, I guess the world won't know until it's actually done.But i- for me, I think there's just so much complication in this build-out, and so many people getting involved.I feel like we're gonna look back in, like, 10 and 15 years and been like, "That was crazy."Whenever things get out of hand, it's because they become overcomplicated, and people look for more and more and more, and it'sThere was aI have a question about surveys.Hmm.Have you ever answered a finance survey?No.Yeah.That's why I never believe any- Rightpolitical or finance or any survey ever, because the people that respond- Yeahare already either mad or super happy.Or, like, yeah, like, they haveThere are people, types of people, who respond to surveys.Some of them- I'm not friends with any of them, but they're out there.Some of them have to be incentivized.Yeah."Here's a Starbucks gift card," for example.Actually."Please complete this survey."I am friends with one of them.We know some of those people.Yeah.I am friends with one of them who does that.So Betterment did a survey of Gen Z investors.Yeah.And they surveyed 1,000 Gen Z investors, which I think that's a pretty small number.I mean, yeah.But, so take that for what it's worth.And they published the results, and they found, and this is how when you get a survey and you just transmute this information into a fact, 22% of Gen Z investors look as gambling as a part of their financial plan.Okay.Okay, so they found 250 people who are looking at predictions, the predictions market, essentially, as a part of their, their asset allocation and their financial plan.And I think that's pretty bad, honestly.I, I think 250 people that they found pretty quickly, I don't, I'm not sure we need any of those people to be doing that.But that doesn't suggest that 22% of all of Tori's population are- Well, think about Gen Z investors.Gen Z's only been out of college forLike, I'm at the very top of that age.No Gen Zs have money right now.They're all fresh out of college.Yeah, I was gonna say, I think I just want me 7.They all have college debt.And they have even less money 'cause they're betting it all on predictions market.Yeah, I know.Yeah, seriously, so that makes sense to me, honestly.It's probably not that crazy.Right.I mean, I do know a lot of young people- Like, why do, like why doIf you're 25 years old, why do you need a long-term financial plan?Hey, your world at 50 years from now, you should have no idea what that looks like- Yeahor what you're going to need for it.What I will say is, and I don't know, like, I'd be curious to get a copy of this survey to see what the question actually said.Oh, what it s- like- Yeah, because, like, it could, it, like, it could've been, like, you know, "What percentage of your income- Oh, yeahdo you put towards sports betting?"Yeah.Or something like that.And then, and then it would take that and extrapolate it and say, "Well, this person takes 200 bucks a month and puts it towards, you know, whatever it might be."And then it's like that's part of their long-term investing strategy.Like, it's so taken out of context.We don't even know what the question was, and then to publish a headline like that is just hilariously misleading.Yeah, because then people walk around repeating that type of stuff.Correct.And we needIt's, Jessica had sent something from her mom's best friend.Okay.So we're talking, like, a mid-70s woman on Facebook.Okay.And it was a video of, I think it was Biden, Obama, George U.Bush, and Clinton.So it was AI.So it was AI.And they were all singing a song about, about, like, the value of America and, like, whatI can't remember, some song, some country song about America.And she thought it was legit?But I'm worried that she did, and, and I'm like, "You need to, you need to question this."And also, I find it interesting that people are grabbing George W.Bush now and saying the championLike, they put Obama and George Bush in the same category.This is the world we live in now, where people who- And Clintonvoted for Obama hated George Bush.Right.Exactly.And now, and now he's, like, a hero.Like, comparatively speaking- People are quick to forgetwe like, we like Bush.But yeah.I, I think that we need to, we live in a time where we need to question more and more and more and more.So, like, every time you see a survey like this, like, you're asking the right questions about, you know, what were the prompts that those responders were given, and then we're also asking questions like, what are you really trying to takeWhat's the point?Right.What is the point of this survey?Why are we even surveying Gen Z about their financial habits right now?If it surveyed me and was just like, you know, "Do you go out to bars and restaurants as a 23-year-old?"Then it would be like, "Yes."And it's like, "How much do you spend at bars and restaurants?"It's like, "Oh, I go out with my friends every Friday and Saturday night.I spend, like, 40 bucks."Then the news article would be like, "30% of all Gen Z," like "Millennial money goes towards bars."Like, and that's not true.At least $4,000 a year.Yeah, exactly.So I don't know.That, that stuff's just ridiculous.But what I will say is, you know, on Instagram and Facebook and all these other places, I'm constantly seeing, like, profiles and ads and all these things.Like, there was someone who I almost followed the other day whose whole profile was fake.Mm.And it was, like, a fake person- Yeahsaying fake stuff.Yeah.And turns out it wasn't a real person.I found it in the comments.Yeah.I mean, you could see, like, things were slightly off, and it looked, like, too perfect, and I went to the comments, and they're all like, "Yeah, this is totally fake."It really feels like more and more and more we're just gonna wanna be offline.Mm, yeah.You know?I think Tori said something yesterday or the day before that was interesting.She was like, "I feel like AI is the death of social media."Yeah.Well, here's hoping.I- Yeah.That, that wouldn't be the end of the world.I- Keep, keep YouTube, though.Also- I need my cooking stuff.Yeah.We should talk about those Trump accounts, though, because I thought that one of the articles that we were sent for our homework, uh, was actually pretty interesting, suggesting that the people who are taking advantage of the Trump accounts- Are already wealthy peopleare already more financially literate.They know to take advantage- Yeah, I saw thatof those accounts.Yeah.And I think that there is something to that.I wouldn't goLike, I think that the article headline was like, you know, "Are Trump Accounts Increasing the Wealth Divide?"Right.Jesus Christ.Like, you can put $5,000 in those things.Like, it's not- Yeah, I knowI'm not being specific.But, um- So the person that is putting 5,000 to 6,000 in the Trump account already has 5,000 to 6,000.It's not a free 5,000 to 6,000.That's true.So it's not like the wealth divide didn't already exist, and, like, the government just handed them another $6,000.But it can continue to create- It's gonna compound.Yeah, yeah, yeah.Yeah.But I think that financial literacy is kind of the point, that the, the goal is, "Here's a Trump account.Let's talk about financial literacy."Mm-hmm.That'sWe're trying to, to increase awareness, increase conversation, make sure people understand what their financial habits should or could look like, and I think that's already happening, actually.You know, we were just knocking a survey of Gen Z investors, but I do think people are aware of Roth IRAs, for example, at a younger age.They have had, they've come of age in a time where they had Robinhood- Yeahand just, like, easy access to investing and unfortunately gambling on their phones.Yeah.And I think that there's already an increase in financial literacy, so this article predisposes that that's not happening and that it's just gonna lead to this wealth divide.I remember growing up, it was always, you know, the things you don't talk about at the dinner table, you know?Sure.Money, politics.Yeah.Yeah.And now I do feel as if my friends and I are having more and more conversations around finances.Great.The people I know who have children are talking to their kids about finances more.Like, it's, in my mind, becoming more socially acceptable to talk about finances, and I do think that social media is actually a big part of that because social media is talking about it, so kids are gonna see it, so parents have to have those conversations.Which I think is a healthy thing versus not talking with your kids about it.I think that maybe to a degree, I don'tYou know, what's that, that, that phrase?Like, on the margins or, you know, at the core of it, social media is either good or bad.Like, if you were to distill it down- Yeahand you had to choose good or bad, the financial literacy that has been raised by social media is probably offset significantly by the in-your-face consumption and the haves that is just likeWhen I was Tori's age, I couldn't just pull out my phone and look at all these people have all those things or travel- Sureall these places or compare, like, the, the source of comparison is so extreme and so consistent.So now, yeah, sure, like, yes, you could know to contribute to your Roth IRA, but that isn't gonna get you that trip to Milan that that person on Instagram just took.Or that fancy car or house- Rightor whatever, yeah.So I think people feel worse off than they actually are in some ways because- You know, look, when I was 25 years old, I didn't have any money.I didn't-- I had tons of debt.Yeah.And I didn't have, I didn't have a house, I didn't have an IRA, I didn't have a 401 , I didn't have a non-qualified Robinhood account.I didn't have money that I could just gamble away on an app.And that's, it's, you know, I'm just one person.But when you're young, you're supposed to struggle.You're not supposed to have it all right away.And- Yeah, you're supposed to figure this stuff out.Yeah, but, like, the get rich quick has always been a scheme.It's always been a concept, but it's more and more and more in your face now.I am always feeling like I'm missing out.Yeah.I have FOMO constantly, you know?Yeah.And pretty much all of that comes from social media or the web in general.Like, I've never, like, I look at my friends and family and everything, and I'm more happy for them than anything.Like, if they get something or a new car or house or whatever it is, trip, like, I'm pumped for them.But then when you go online, you see this, like, stuff in your face, I always feel like I'm personally missing out.Like, I always go back to cars and, you know, growing up, I always wanted, like, some fun cars.And now it's like I see these cars, and the car I wanted that was, like, eighty thousand is now four hundred thousand dollars.And I'm like, "I'm never gonna be able to get this."Like, I need to work harder and get it, and how do all these pe- other people get it?And you can't not have those thoughts.Um, the car market is a whole 'nother thing to digest.But it is in your face.It is unhealthy.So to your point, there is that bad side of it.But I do think that it is good that people are starting to talk about finances more, which will hopefully increase some education in the finance space.Yeah, I think the problem is when theyWe don't know how to talk about finance.And I think, just to go back to what you said, when I was the poorest in my life, like, the multiple, like, you know, there were a few points where I had just, like, no money.I didn't feel like I was missing out.And I think if I lived that way today, like, if I was younger and didn't have any money in this current environment, I would feel constantly like I'm missing out.And that might drive you to achieve more.It also might drive you to take more unnecessary risks.Of course.You know?Yeah, and it's also, like, why are you trying so hard to just get a material object that's not gonna bring any more happiness?Because outside of that material object, there's gonna be another one.I don't even know if it's an object.It's like a lifestyle.It's like this like- Sureeverything that this person does sounds great, you know?And there's a, there's a, a documentary coming out.It's called, I wanna say, like, The Surge, or no, I don't know, The Surge of, On Paradise or something like that.It's, it's basically about a small town in, I wanna say, Italy, that has, like, four thousand people that live there.Mm-hmm.And then every year, the tourists come in and drive that, like- Oh, yeahpopulation up 10, 20 X over the course of tourist season.Sure.And how they really, really hate these tourists.And this is happening a lot.Like, overseas, people are getting sick of all the tourist crowds coming through because they saw it on Instagram or whatever.I think that there's just this idea out there that you can go anywhere, do anywhere, be anyone you want, et cetera, and it makes it really hard to just be you.That's fair.I think that's a good place to end it.All right.I think that's good.I like it.Like, subscribe, share with a friend.All right.I love it.Sounds good.Sounds good.Thanks, Wheeler.The information in this material is for general information only and is not intended to provide specific advice or recommendations for any individual.Investment advice offered through Integrated Partners, doing business as CoFi Advisors LLC, a registered investment advisor.Integrated Partners does not provide legal, tax, mortgage advice or services.Please consult your legal tax advisor regarding your specific situation.Past performance is no guarantee f- of future results.All investing involves risk, including loss of principal.No strategy assures success or protects against loss.The economic forecast set forth in this material may not develop as predicted, and there can be no guarantee that the strategies promoted will be successful.Compound Growth with Wheeler and Colin.Sponsored byCoFi Advisors.Reach out today.Yeah